Soza is talking shit. Believes that Nanoseers have always been #1 because of some entirely unexplained statistic, then will claim that no one else is testing.
Soza On average at 54 I'll hit multi, freeze 180, swarm 280, multi tick120.
Meanwhile, at level 40, Scoundrels pull off big ambush damage in one balance and then 600 balance in the next, their unprepped crackshots deal more than your prepped swarm and also afflict.
Beasts are wristblading for consistently between 400-500.
Engineers are whacking shit and getting bleed, which more than make up for a lack of multistrike.
Fury is going to build up rage after a few kills and then it'll blitz through an area for a while on and off.
The 30-40 second TTK says more than enough on that matter.
Nanoseers have always been bad at bashing for one reason or another (especially in groups), that reason has just changed over time.
I intend to, after all, I'm interested in positive discussion not drama. Contributing nothing of merit while belittling others is not only pointless, but immature.
So, regarding bashing: having played mostly as Fury, Engineer and Nanoseer, nano feels the clunkiest to me thus far, especially after speedup was fixed concerning mobs. I'm all for more involved bashing (engineer is just bot turret, claw, injector and does strong dps) but it's irksome when the involvement yields nothing too great, unless there's some trick I'm missing here outside the usual routine of freezing, multistriking and swarming.
Some ideas and thoughts though: limbdrain is nice-ish for bashing (just to apply a couple of damaged limbs to reduce incoming damage). Vaccumsphere is great if there's only one target in the room! If only suffocate couldn't be cut off by being damaged so easily (even if it it's not 100% chance as is) then it would be amazing, hehe. Oh, might of already noticed but as it stands, mobs die from subsystem damage the same as players so you can confound a few times into minddrain and watch as something goes into a hard cascade quite quickly due to the multiplied subsystem damage they take, though, I don't think it's faster to do this than fighting 'normally'. Now if they would just be effected by instants...
Just turn Frenzy and Speedup into a permanent buff that drains a little sanity every few seconds, and have kills you make on mobs regen sanity depending on the Oblivion person you're dancing with.
Problem solved? OR More problems? I shall let you decide.
The only problem with allowing instants to apply would be that as nano you could very easily instant mobs, which would allow you to fight things quite a bit above your level. as it stands just confound and mindswap is about 20% of a creature's mind sys. not counting the confounds as mindswap is proccing. for testing purposes I tried it and the creature has 8% mind left by the time that mindswap ends. This would pose a problem as subsystem damage doesnt change by the level of creature so you could have theorhetically a level 20 killing level 30-40 things, or a level 50 killing 60-70, etc so long as they can soak damage for 5ish balances. https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/zH2s4Scb
That aside I would love to be able to kill creatures with subsystem damage and instas
for mindmelt 6, or even maybe 7 affs because of distract/sluggish, and 50% mind subsys would make more sense, and still be more difficult than it was, and take longer, but not so long that we don't stand a chance when pushing for a mindmelt. 75% takes too long to get too, and any decent scoundrel, fury, or even beast will kill you before you reach this point. I haven't fought many engineers, so i can't say for sure regarding them, but I remember Maruna ripping me up pretty quickly, so they can also likely be added to that list.
Breakdown is easier, takes about 20s more than the old mindmelt did if you pressure sensory and mind both, and we have WW in analyze now too.
I did some testing as well with bashing, and my DPS while I kill a lapine using fury/multi/freeze/swarm is 93.34, and takes 32s from start to finish. This is pretty bad when compared to the other classes.
no. full damage. The reduction that annoyed me was the atza's in the quarry. 50-65 area and you get DR at 50, but they definitely hit you plenty hard. haha
for mindmelt 6, or even maybe 7 affs because of distract/sluggish, and 50% mind subsys would make more sense, and still be more difficult than it was, and take longer, but not so long that we don't stand a chance when pushing for a mindmelt. 75% takes too long to get too, and any decent scoundrel, fury, or even beast will kill you before you reach this point. I haven't fought many engineers, so i can't say for sure regarding them, but I remember Maruna ripping me up pretty quickly, so they can also likely be added to that list.
Breakdown is easier, takes about 20s more than the old mindmelt did if you pressure sensory and mind both, and we have WW in analyze now too.
I did some testing as well with bashing, and my DPS while I kill a lapine using fury/multi/freeze/swarm is 93.34, and takes 32s from start to finish. This is pretty bad when compared to the other classes.
I'm not entirely sure that Breakdown isn't only working because of buggy feedback. The numbers don't seem right to me. Sensory and Mind both below 90 is 2% wetwiring damage every ten seconds. That seems insanely slow. 250 seconds to get to Breakdown with no wetwiring mends? Even with wireblock, they can just mend when it fades.
Sometimes feedback inexplicably spikes and they take like 50% in 5-10 seconds, which is where I usually get Breakdowns but also seems like a bug. Maybe I am missing something though?
Sensory and Mind both below 90 is 2% wetwiring damage every ten seconds. That seems insanely slow. 250 seconds to get to Breakdown with no wetwiring mends? Even with wireblock, they can just mend when it fades.
Sometimes feedback inexplicably spikes and they take like 50% in 5-10 seconds, which is where I usually get Breakdowns but also seems like a bug. Maybe I am missing something though?
Drain scales to how low the systems are, fyi.
(disclaimer: Wetwiring I'm not 100% sure on; I know the others scale this way. Only time I even touched wetwiring was when I hard locked Balthazar as low lvl scoundrel)
I think the changes they put in would prevent that (mobs above your level by X amount resist your affs).
The WW insta doesnt require affs.
Sure, but affs are how we deal subsystem damage. Are you saying they take the damage even if they resist the aff? It doesn't seem like they would.
They do, if they didn't then damage classes would have that over us as well. as our affliction attacks don't do normal damage. Just subsys at an increased amount.
Strictly in PvE I was able to have that creature in the pastebin within one tick of breakdown by time time the first mindswap wore off, using only mental afflictions. And 8 afflictions for the Mindmelt Insta too.
Strictly in PvE I was able to have that creature in the pastebin within one tick of breakdown by time time the first mindswap wore off, using only mental afflictions. And 8 afflictions for the Mindmelt Insta too.
Make the instas do damage on mobs versus actually instakill so they're a viable path but not imbalanced.
Make the instas do damage on mobs versus actually instakill so they're a viable path but not imbalanced.
Then you're either back to square one, or they just spam the insta till it dies. The idea is to make Nano take around the same amount of balances as other classes to kill denizens by subsys damage so that you dont have to make nano damage so strong.
Make the instas do damage on mobs versus actually instakill so they're a viable path but not imbalanced.
Then you're either back to square one, or they just spam the insta till it dies. The idea is to make Nano take around the same amount of balances as other classes to kill denizens by subsys damage so that you dont have to make nano damage so strong.
How is it square one if the affliction plus insta kill spam TTK equates to other classes TTK?
I think the biggest fear of making instakills viable is that it introduces a flat time to kill without considering mob health. That might be fine now, but could cause issues down the road if they release stronger, tankier denizens. Or even honor mobs. The solution then would be to make those mobs resistant to subsystem damage and bam we're back to this problem again.
The only thing in our set that makes us an aff based class is mindswap.
The biggest DPS class out there is Scoundrel, it has everything. BEAST probably comes second.
You can say "wuh wuh HINDER" but without dealing health damage, we miss out on the hinder of forcing our enemies to heal. Instead, they can focus on rushing us down and their curing.
My opinion would be that engineers take first, scoundrels take second, fury third, beast fourth, and nano last. On the stipulation of including our buff-up period before every single encounter.
I feel like engineer's damage is higher due to being able to put stim on auto.
from relevant information that Tecton said which I can only assume doesn't include bufftimes my guess would be its actually engineer, nano, scoundrel, fury, beast. I honestly think beast lost a crazy amount of PvE damage with the amount of nerfs they have recieved so far and that people will keep beating the class further down because they were the first to be "OP"
This is obviously just my opinion from what I have seen and I have only ever played a nanoseer. Although I did setup my mothers system and she is an engineer.
Im actually unsure of which has better TTK between a fury and a beast tbh though so my opinion on those two is very uncertain.
I heard someone mention Scoundrels and instakills, so I wanted to chip in.
Going for straight damage, with at level gear in an at level zone, I can kill about 2-3 seconds faster than chasing my instakill in the most optimal fashion. The benefit is that I take less damage overall (health and subsystem), and so there's in general a little less downtime (I don't need to stop to mend/regen as often).
Comments
Soza
On average at 54 I'll hit multi, freeze 180, swarm 280, multi tick120.
Meanwhile, at level 40, Scoundrels pull off big ambush damage in one balance and then 600 balance in the next, their unprepped crackshots deal more than your prepped swarm and also afflict.
Beasts are wristblading for consistently between 400-500.
Engineers are whacking shit and getting bleed, which more than make up for a lack of multistrike.
Fury is going to build up rage after a few kills and then it'll blitz through an area for a while on and off.
The 30-40 second TTK says more than enough on that matter.
Nanoseers have always been bad at bashing for one reason or another (especially in groups), that reason has just changed over time.
@Aya You should probably just ignore Wuff.
So, regarding bashing: having played mostly as Fury, Engineer and Nanoseer, nano feels the clunkiest to me thus far, especially after speedup was fixed concerning mobs. I'm all for more involved bashing (engineer is just bot turret, claw, injector and does strong dps) but it's irksome when the involvement yields nothing too great, unless there's some trick I'm missing here outside the usual routine of freezing, multistriking and swarming.
Some ideas and thoughts though: limbdrain is nice-ish for bashing (just to apply a couple of damaged limbs to reduce incoming damage). Vaccumsphere is great if there's only one target in the room! If only suffocate couldn't be cut off by being damaged so easily (even if it it's not 100% chance as is) then it would be amazing, hehe. Oh, might of already noticed but as it stands, mobs die from subsystem damage the same as players so you can confound a few times into minddrain and watch as something goes into a hard cascade quite quickly due to the multiplied subsystem damage they take, though, I don't think it's faster to do this than fighting 'normally'. Now if they would just be effected by instants...
Problem solved? OR More problems? I shall let you decide.
Method: traveller -> speedup/swap to progenitor -> multistrike -> freeze -> swarm. TTK is 34s.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/wY3Xs1nd
Method: conqueror -> frenzy -> multistrike -> freeze -> swarm. TTK is 37s.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/iS86RYda
Method: conqueror -> frenzy -> pointzero -> suffocate. TTK is 47s
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/raa3CoIp
For comparison, here's Engineer bot swing at TTK 21s.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/2e1TjYBB
- Ilyos (August 2019)
for testing purposes I tried it and the creature has 8% mind left by the time that mindswap ends. This would pose a problem as subsystem damage doesnt change by the level of creature so you could have theorhetically a level 20 killing level 30-40 things, or a level 50 killing 60-70, etc so long as they can soak damage for 5ish balances.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/zH2s4Scb
That aside I would love to be able to kill creatures with subsystem damage and instas
Breakdown is easier, takes about 20s more than the old mindmelt did if you pressure sensory and mind both, and we have WW in analyze now too.
I did some testing as well with bashing, and my DPS while I kill a lapine using fury/multi/freeze/swarm is 93.34, and takes 32s from start to finish. This is pretty bad when compared to the other classes.
Sure, but affs are how we deal subsystem damage. Are you saying they take the damage even if they resist the aff? It doesn't seem like they would.
I'm not entirely sure that Breakdown isn't only working because of buggy feedback. The numbers don't seem right to me. Sensory and Mind both below 90 is 2% wetwiring damage every ten seconds. That seems insanely slow. 250 seconds to get to Breakdown with no wetwiring mends? Even with wireblock, they can just mend when it fades.
Sometimes feedback inexplicably spikes and they take like 50% in 5-10 seconds, which is where I usually get Breakdowns but also seems like a bug. Maybe I am missing something though?
And 8 afflictions for the Mindmelt Insta too.
The idea is to make Nano take around the same amount of balances as other classes to kill denizens by subsys damage so that you dont have to make nano damage so strong.
No more of this aff crap until/if Scoundrel is nerfed.
The biggest DPS class out there is Scoundrel, it has everything. BEAST probably comes second.
You can say "wuh wuh HINDER" but without dealing health damage, we miss out on the hinder of forcing our enemies to heal. Instead, they can focus on rushing us down and their curing.
I feel like engineer's damage is higher due to being able to put stim on auto.
from relevant information that Tecton said which I can only assume doesn't include bufftimes my guess would be its actually
engineer, nano, scoundrel, fury, beast.
I honestly think beast lost a crazy amount of PvE damage with the amount of nerfs they have recieved so far and that people will keep beating the class further down because they were the first to be "OP"
This is obviously just my opinion from what I have seen and I have only ever played a nanoseer. Although I did setup my mothers system and she is an engineer.
Im actually unsure of which has better TTK between a fury and a beast tbh though so my opinion on those two is very uncertain.
Going for straight damage, with at level gear in an at level zone, I can kill about 2-3 seconds faster than chasing my instakill in the most optimal fashion. The benefit is that I take less damage overall (health and subsystem), and so there's in general a little less downtime (I don't need to stop to mend/regen as often).