Haven't done any sparring, so this is mostly based on PvE, theorycrafting, and my feelz. I'm only going to really cover negative things, but my overall opinion is the class is fun and thematically enjoyable.
New stuff comments:
Soothe still doesn't heal subsystems like the ab says. The regen tick is about 10% now.
Nano analyze doesn't report wetwiring subsystem status for Breakdown. EM status would be nice, too.
Timeline feels like it could be a good team support ability now (and I dislike how rare positive support is). timeline enemy'sprimarytarget store, enter fight, revert if needed after a round or two.
Old stuff comments:
AoE feels double-edged in this game, and taking self-damage on top of it exacerbates that. I like multiswarm (not channeled, not self-targeting), roomdrain (the new 3-freeze version is great in single-targt rooms -.-) and vacuumsphere (not channeled, have seen it do 1800 at MIL50 after a roomdrain so owie wowie). Even then, use cases feel limited when you'll get eaten alive by the aggro alone or hurt your allies in groups. Barrage feels especially blah for being channeled and self-damaging. Distribution lol, and ripples is like baby distribution. I don't really have any solution, just feels like something that needs a look to me.
Nanotech
I hate rng and wasted attacks. Confound mixes both I still don't get EM stuff. Deaf is a garbage aff effect.
Voidism
I don't get why frozen increases thermal damage. Wish I could airgrab an entity and isolate it for a fight. Probably 2stronk. You can not use shatter against mobs at this time. (Although roomdrain would let 3 nanos clear entire rooms in 2-3 balances now)
Oblivion Affinity doesn't feel worth it. Wish Conqueror restored some sanity on a PvE kill, maybe even some hp.
Problem: Distract/sluggush/rattle are cured randomly which makes it difficult to reapply one or all of these afflictions, and applying them when the target has them already wastes a balance.
sol.1: Make re-application not cost balance, as this truly is a wasted attack. It doesn't do anything if they have the aff.
sol.2: make analyze show what affs the target has on top of what we see now. Alternatively just revert the change. I don't see why it was changed anyways
sol.3: give distract and sluggish lines when they've been cured by the target, making it a bit easier to track what's going on with the target
sol.4: make them incurable affs with a duration that scales with subsystem damage, with a line when they've worn off.
Problem2: six afflictions AND 75% mind damage for a mindmelt is brutal to get to in an actual fight
Sol1: 6 affs, 50% mind. This makes it harder to land than before because of confound's RNG, but also won't take forever and a day to get to our kill.
Sol2: remove the RNG from confound. With this much subsys damage it's going to take a while to kill a decent opponent anyways, which is what I assumed you guys were going for?
Sol3: Just revert it? This nerf to mindmelt was really excessive and crippling.
Problem3: Shatter. It's either going to be impossible solo or overpowered in groups.(like EM damage)
Sol1: Remove it and replace it with a sensory-based insta.
Sol2: Remove it and give a skill that afflicts mind affs smartly, with a smaller pool to choose from.
Sol3: Remove it. This would give more time to focus on the kills that're actually balance-able and viable for pvp.
I was really sad about the analyze change. I'd be less sad if it lost its CD like some of the other classes' checks. It just seemed like a needless nerf of something cool about nanoseer, though. Maybe we could at least get the old analyze effect if they're enveloped?
I was really sad about the analyze change. I'd be less sad if it lost its CD like some of the other classes' checks. It just seemed like a needless nerf of something cool about nanoseer, though. Maybe we could at least get the old analyze effect if they're enveloped?
Ouch 10% more of our nanites tied up, just to achieve what we once had and im already having problems generating nanites now. Im pretty sure there was a nanite generation nerf somewhere hidden. The only way ive found to keep up with nanite generation and have it feel like it used to, is to slowdown the room so my attacks go off slower and I have more time to build up nanites.
I think that honestly, at this point, we need someone to come forward and tell us what the class vision is. I'm not sure what we're supposed to be or where we got lost.
After that, maybe we should go through our skills with a fine comb and see how things can possibly be changed?
Have to say that having rested so much hope on the next balancing pass to fix a few things, it leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth to come up with a bunch of nerfs.
Having dueled quite a bit and spent a considerable time working with the Nanoseer class, I don't think it's anywhere near as bad a post like the one above would suggest.
Outside of lacking for damage in regards to affliction/subsystem based routes (something other classes have little shortage of) and therefore having to give up offensive momentum for repairing in any matchup that isn't a mirror, there's really not much that's weak. While I can't say yet, it seems likely this is a problem that gets lesser and lesser the higher your level is though that will still depend on the relative damage output of your opponent. So, small adjustments here and there yes, but, overall, everything works quite well.
Previously, Analyze was much too strong and made it far too easy to keep key afflictions up without risk, something that would be doubly true now that distract and sluggish don't cure anything. As it is, the new Analyze is still extremely useful and you can know all you need from it, though, it would be awesome if it included muscular status as well given the class can hit muscular via limbdrain. But, knowing the exact afflictions on every subsystem was overboard.
Mind 25% for mindmelt is perhaps harsh, however, the increased affliction check is likely to factor in how it's far easier to use and upkeep sluggish and distract now, both of which are of course, mind afflictions, so I've no problem with that.
Anyway, suggestion wise, I would adore a way to do something like 'oblivion mindmelt [swap]' to swap to the required channel if needed and you have swap balance, because, as is, it's cumbersome to use swap given the game's queue limitation, something that could also perhaps be applied to Timeline so that it's more user friendly, especially for people with higher latency, to use the off-balance aspect of the skill.
Following the changes (particularly to speedup affecting mobs), I tweaked my bashing a bit to this:
- swap or channel traveller - speedup - swap or channel progenitor - multistrike - freeze - swarm
--- reapply freeze if it fades --- repair when health is below 75%ish --- use negation to interrupt attacks
My time to kill is around 34-37s, after all that fiddliness. Meanwhile, in Engineer, all I need is around 350 lessons for bot claw, bot swing, stimjector, and qpc turret for a TTK of 18-21s.
A 13-second difference (minimum) is a lot. I get the allure of the challenge, but I sort of wish that after all of the necessary abilities needed for nanoseer bashing that it'd at least match up to other classes.
edit: my gear
toolkit 8928
gauntlet 8945
goggles 8630
Mereas Eyrlock "They're excited, but poor." - Ilyos (August 2019)
To be honest I half-expect our old Analyze to be an artifact or very-exclusive auction piece in the future. Could make a killing as cashout, among some circles. Regardless, I think it was the greatest loss in this patch. Even for PvE I liked checking health, subsystems of mobs etc if not for PvP.
On PvE department I was too accustomed to hunt with Traveller, now it does not give any advantage but works as a lethal fast-forward button.
Overally I did not feel too much increase or reduction in PvE performance, except Roomdrain is quite useful if there is only one mob in the room and we can upkeep Affinity easier now.
Having dueled quite a bit and spent a considerable time working with the Nanoseer class, I don't think it's anywhere near as bad a post like the one above would suggest.
Have to say I don't believe you! Sorry! Next.
Edit: Go read the BEAST thread, that's hilarious, and it's from a class that is still top tier in bashing.
Having dueled quite a bit and spent a considerable time working with the Nanoseer class, I don't think it's anywhere near as bad a post like the one above would suggest.
Outside of lacking for damage in regards to affliction/subsystem based routes (something other classes have little shortage of) and therefore having to give up offensive momentum for repairing in any matchup that isn't a mirror, there's really not much that's weak. While I can't say yet, it seems likely this is a problem that gets lesser and lesser the higher your level is though that will still depend on the relative damage output of your opponent. So, small adjustments here and there yes, but, overall, everything works quite well.
Previously, Analyze was much too strong and made it far too easy to keep key afflictions up without risk, something that would be doubly true now that distract and sluggish don't cure anything. As it is, the new Analyze is still extremely useful and you can know all you need from it, though, it would be awesome if it included muscular status as well given the class can hit muscular via limbdrain. But, knowing the exact afflictions on every subsystem was overboard.
Mind 25% for mindmelt is perhaps harsh, however, the increased affliction check is likely to factor in how it's far easier to use and upkeep sluggish and distract now, both of which are of course, mind afflictions, so I've no problem with that.
Anyway, suggestion wise, I would adore a way to do something like 'oblivion mindmelt [swap]' to swap to the required channel if needed and you have swap balance, because, as is, it's cumbersome to use swap given the game's queue limitation, something that could also perhaps be applied to Timeline so that it's more user friendly, especially for people with higher latency, to use the off-balance aspect of the skill.
What key afflictions are you talking about? It'd make it possible to keep track of distract and sluggish, but everything else is either random or smartly afflicting. Muscular isn't important to us, really, as mind and sensory are the only ones that give feedback into wetwiring, but being able to see everything wasn't really as overpowered as you seem to think.
Mind 25% for mindmelt is definitely a crazy nerf to the class, increasing the afflictions needed was understandable, considering distract and sluggish, but those two affs are just as hard as any other to stick when we can't see what afflictions they have/they cure, and overlapping them wastes balances.
Personally, I would like Muscular just so I know when weakened limbs drop. I have no intention of using it for that purpose, but I think we should have it either way.
Having dueled quite a bit and spent a considerable time working with the Nanoseer class, I don't think it's anywhere near as bad a post like the one above would suggest.
Outside of lacking for damage in regards to affliction/subsystem based routes (something other classes have little shortage of) and therefore having to give up offensive momentum for repairing in any matchup that isn't a mirror, there's really not much that's weak. While I can't say yet, it seems likely this is a problem that gets lesser and lesser the higher your level is though that will still depend on the relative damage output of your opponent. So, small adjustments here and there yes, but, overall, everything works quite well.
Previously, Analyze was much too strong and made it far too easy to keep key afflictions up without risk, something that would be doubly true now that distract and sluggish don't cure anything. As it is, the new Analyze is still extremely useful and you can know all you need from it, though, it would be awesome if it included muscular status as well given the class can hit muscular via limbdrain. But, knowing the exact afflictions on every subsystem was overboard.
Mind 25% for mindmelt is perhaps harsh, however, the increased affliction check is likely to factor in how it's far easier to use and upkeep sluggish and distract now, both of which are of course, mind afflictions, so I've no problem with that.
Anyway, suggestion wise, I would adore a way to do something like 'oblivion mindmelt [swap]' to swap to the required channel if needed and you have swap balance, because, as is, it's cumbersome to use swap given the game's queue limitation, something that could also perhaps be applied to Timeline so that it's more user friendly, especially for people with higher latency, to use the off-balance aspect of the skill.
I agree for the most part, but re: analyze, I think your statement is coming more from theory than practice. With a one second balance (during which an aff can be cured) and a 10 second cooldown, as well as not seeing what confound delivered (which could double up), I never felt that I had perfect knowledge of their afflictions. Certainly not moreso than with the current analyze, which still gives me a number. But I like to see muscular/internal levels and affs too, as well as sensory levels, mend efficacy, and health. Mend efficacy and health can pretty much be tracked anyway (if there's a way to figure out their max health) so I'll probably just code something. The rest aren't terribly important but having a full diag is just fun. I don't really actually expect the change to impact combat much.
I previously suggested some kind of swap combo command. Whether it's like you said, or just something like OBLIVION SWAP CONQUERER <ability>, I still think that'd be handy.
I really wish we could see what confound delivered so we could guess better whether it doubled up (still wouldn't know for sure since the prior aff may have gotten cured).
Also, re: not doing damage. Damage is hinder in this game since it forces the opponent to go off balance for non-offensive moves more often. But most damage classes also deliver frequent hinder afflictions like damaged limbs---staggering too in beast's case. Distract/sluggish are stronger than an ordinary damaged limb affs but are making up for both those affs and the hinder from damage itself for us. I don't think them being easier to stick is a bad thing. If we, for example, waste a balance because we try to distract when there aren't 3 affs or try to sluggish when distract just got cured, we're essentially hindering ourselves more rather than our opponents when they already had heavy hinder on us.
It honestly might be cool if we could tie the damaged limb affs into our offense more in some smaller way (since they offer damage and hindering affs like most classes can as part of their main offense). Maybe an ability that directly damages wetwiring based on muscular affs. Or maybe limbdrain could drain health into yourself, healing you, so you can sometimes use it instead of repair (it obviously wouldn't heal as much as repair, though, so not a total replacement).
On a completely different note, I really think NANO ORDER balance has to be much smaller (like 1.5 seconds) since control already has a 3 second balance, you can only order within ten seconds of control, and it also has a substantial CD. Control also shouldn't require quite so many nanites.
What exactly does Analyze show now, out of curiosity? Like what does the thing look like now.
It's basically: Number of mind affs: 3 Mind system: 100% Number of sensory affs: 2 WW system: 100% Freeze level: 3
It's got everything we need, no question. I just don't really see a reason for nerfing it. People liked it. It wasn't OP. And we have other weaknesses (like not dealing damage) that are fairly major so I think people just think "wtf" when something that wasn't even crazy is changed.
Recall should be able to cancel specific effects. If nanites are tied up then it should return them. Swarm damage needs increasing or something along those lines. No idea what's up with damage formula but if you're going to make us use a vastly weaker ability before it, then please. Confound needs to smart afflict if you're keeping mindmelt at 25%. Why does distract even need 3 affs? Just make it available at any time. We've been told Sensory will be getting more affs, just need to wait for that to happen. I forgot Sluggish but point I made about distract. Give us it straight up. Affinity... I don't think this will see use. Control nanites and order balance needs to be reduced as Arista said, alternatively, just reduce nanite costs and I'd like if it added to a special type of command queue personally. Disarm... ??? Reconstruct, change this to constructing new props instead or something. Propgrab, Propdrop, Hurl, Drag and all that stuff just needs some looking at. Freeze should either be duration or curable, not both. Calm is just... Not comparable with stuff like Warmth. Like, wow... Shatter still needs stuff done with it. I'm not sure what, but it's absurd right now. It could be incredibly easy with 2 nanoseers in a way that other instakills aren't. I'm asking for a nerf for once. Drain... Needs something... Maybe it should heal or something at least, or replenish your own resources. Rattle is somewhat laughable unless you're ready to burst someone with like 4 scoundrels. Make barrage not hit yourself why is this a thing. Swap, I think had cooldown reduced, step in the right direction, I forgot about that. The passive Empyreal bonuses seem to have had no impact before the changes and still now. Traveller is possibly the most interesting out of the options. Mark needs to have some limitations removed, or extra functionality. Extend needs to have more uses and be based on the item's original durability if it isn't. Cost reduction so we can make a profit would be nice. Distribution as I've said before either needs to protect the Nanoseer or not distribute damage to them. Grounding is just... Bizarre. It cancels EM damage for about 3 balances. I'm... Really not sure how impact this is, my guess is "not very" since no one seems to have any intention of moving to EM. Interdict needs... Something done to it. Give it a period it can't be stopped for or something. Reduce the cooldown, remove the cooldown. Just do something. Ripples... Make it affect enemies only or better, not allies. Maybe the same for Maladies, but that's an afterthought.
Honestly, most of those things are fine. I agree about control (less nanite cost, less order bal), drain (needs to do something besides just resource drain because the amount drained isn't really a net gain), and interdict (needs no or much shorter CD), but otherwise none of those things are actually useless.
The confound/distract/sluggish could use some tweaking, but not in all of the ways you're saying. If confound didn't double up, for example, distract would be fine as is because you'd be able to reliably predict 3 affs. Honestly, though, just being able to see when something is cured (not what is cured) would solve pretty much all of our problems there. Even just a lingering effect of analyze. If an aff is cured/wears off in the next few seconds after analyze, your nanites detect it as they're leaving the person. Not what is cured, just that something is cured, so nano can lose the rng of affs being cured between analyze and whatever they are doing next.
Alternatively, I really don't think it'd hurt to have more tells as to when distract and/or sluggish is stuck. Beast sees everytime they armvice you whether staggering is still stuck because you stagger. It'd be nice if we saw "person moves sluggish to act" when they do things while sluggish.
Honestly, shatter seems close to right for 1v1 (though I'm saying this without too much experience yet, only a little) so I'd hate to nerf it in any substantial way that impacts 1v1, especially without seeing it more in practice. It'd probably just make the most sense to make the 30 second roomdrain CD apply to the whole room. "This room has already been frozen too recently" kind of thing for the whole 30 seconds.
Can be, though it does do damage, so as long as it's doing that it's taking them closer to their death. On the other hand, on denizens using frozen seems to reset the 8s cure, but on players it does not. Perhaps the problem lies in a bug instead of a balance change?
Can be, though it does do damage, so as long as it's doing that it's taking them closer to their death. On the other hand, on denizens using frozen seems to reset the 8s cure, but on players it does not. Perhaps the problem lies in a bug instead of a balance change?
it doesn't reset it, it just adds another stack that takes the same length of time as the first to heal.
It's not theory but nor is it perfect science and I think, at this early stage, that holds true for every ability and every class. So far I've had some success in attempts to maintain distraction and sluggish via means of analyze since after the changes in actual combat. It could be better and of course having time-based affliction length or messages for when things fade makes it a lot easier and removes elements of chance which is great, but, my point, gained through practice, is that it's not full on impossible to use in its current state. Analyze, see number of afflictions. Meet the check? Apply distraction. Apply sluggish. (They can cure distraction before you sluggish and that's crummy) Now there's rng in keeping either up, however, if analyze shows 3 or less afflictions it's probably safe to assume you can reuse them.
Rather than flat out showing everything cured at all times, perhaps a skill, possibly through envelop, that allows a limited window in which you can see enemy curing or even a skill that allows you to watch for the curing of a certain afflictions of your choosing. Or even a display such as: 'x cured an affliction of the mind'. This would make it more interesting than blanket information of knowing everything at all times, kind of like how if someone eats a kelp with clumsy/asthma/weariness you can't always right away be sure what they healed and that leads into more interesting combat.
However! Since Wuff has decided to nae say virtually everything and even gone so far as to basically insult me, I feel there's little point trying to hold any sort of discourse here.
Having to reduce your approximate 3Million nanites left after buffs, down to 2Million allows one or two attacks at most, and forces you into using progenitor almost always. I definitely don't feel we need to be reducing currently available nanites anymore.
Nothing about nanite generation, totals and requirements needs be set in stone and that, like virtually everything posted about here, is very likely open to further change given the ever-evolving state of balance at the moment. And such things need not be based on nanite use either. It could just as easily be oblivion or what have you. Channel a given emperyal and exchange part of your sanity for the temporary use of their 'eyes' so you can see certain curing, something that would also encourage more use of oblivion.
However! Since Wuff has decided to nae say virtually everything and even gone so far as to basically insult me, I feel there's little point trying to hold any sort of discourse here.
No surprise there, you were arguing with the kind of player who won't stop complaining until his class is top meta AND a better pvper explains all the mechanics to him. Help me Ronin!
Just be glad he's not playing a beast or the forums would explode.
Apparently Nanoseer is #2 DPS for bashing, so we probably won't see any buffs from the devs. Can someone please tell me the secret? Because as an engineer, my attack does 221 (claw) + 295 (bleed) + 245 (turret), translating to approximately 253 DPS (at minimum; the bleed amount goes up as the fight continues). My nanoseer path does something like 140 DPS...
Mereas Eyrlock "They're excited, but poor." - Ilyos (August 2019)
However! Since Wuff has decided to nae say virtually everything and even gone so far as to basically insult me, I feel there's little point trying to hold any sort of discourse here.
No surprise there, you were arguing with the kind of player who won't stop complaining until his class is top meta AND a better pvper explains all the mechanics to him. Help me Ronin!
Just be glad he's not playing a beast or the forums would explode.
Better PVPer is pretty laughable.
There shouldn't be a "top meta" and that kind of thinking goes against the idea of balance in the first place.
Pretending Nanoseer is top-tier in pretty much any regard just marks you out as a dumbass with no clue, like, come on, it's like being a fucking climate change denier.
@Aya And quite literally nothing of value was lost on this day.
On average at 54 I'll hit multi, freeze 180, swarm 280, multi tick120. And it goes on like that pretty consistently. This is without frenzy which is a 25% increase. I believe our dps numbers are being compared 1:1 in combat balance with other classes and not including the amount of time we spend out of combat buffing. Either way. Our damage isn't lacking, it's just applying the buffs after each fight over and over that's really slowing us down.
I can assure you that our damage is lacking. At least, the multi-freeze-swarm set up.
If you have a free class change still available, try out Engineer for a day or so. You literally just need Bots Swing (interrupt, 112 lessons) + Gadgets Stimjector (75 lessons) + Turrets QPC (157 lessons).
Mereas Eyrlock "They're excited, but poor." - Ilyos (August 2019)
Comments
New stuff comments:
Soothe still doesn't heal subsystems like the ab says. The regen tick is about 10% now.
Nano analyze doesn't report wetwiring subsystem status for Breakdown. EM status would be nice, too.
Timeline feels like it could be a good team support ability now (and I dislike how rare positive support is). timeline enemy'sprimarytarget store, enter fight, revert if needed after a round or two.
Old stuff comments:
AoE feels double-edged in this game, and taking self-damage on top of it exacerbates that. I like multiswarm (not channeled, not self-targeting), roomdrain (the new 3-freeze version is great in single-targt rooms
Nanotech
I hate rng and wasted attacks. Confound mixes both
I still don't get EM stuff.
Deaf is a garbage aff effect.
Voidism
I don't get why frozen increases thermal damage.
Wish I could airgrab an entity and isolate it for a fight. Probably 2stronk.
You can not use shatter against mobs at this time.
Oblivion
Affinity doesn't feel worth it.
Wish Conqueror restored some sanity on a PvE kill, maybe even some hp.
sol.1: Make re-application not cost balance, as this truly is a wasted attack. It doesn't do anything if they have the aff.
sol.2: make analyze show what affs the target has on top of what we see now. Alternatively just revert the change. I don't see why it was changed anyways
sol.3: give distract and sluggish lines when they've been cured by the target, making it a bit easier to track what's going on with the target
sol.4: make them incurable affs with a duration that scales with subsystem damage, with a line when they've worn off.
Problem2: six afflictions AND 75% mind damage for a mindmelt is brutal to get to in an actual fight
Sol1: 6 affs, 50% mind. This makes it harder to land than before because of confound's RNG, but also won't take forever and a day to get to our kill.
Sol2: remove the RNG from confound. With this much subsys damage it's going to take a while to kill a decent opponent anyways, which is what I assumed you guys were going for?
Sol3: Just revert it? This nerf to mindmelt was really excessive and crippling.
Problem3: Shatter. It's either going to be impossible solo or overpowered in groups.(like EM damage)
Sol1: Remove it and replace it with a sensory-based insta.
Sol2: Remove it and give a skill that afflicts mind affs smartly, with a smaller pool to choose from.
Sol3: Remove it. This would give more time to focus on the kills that're actually balance-able and viable for pvp.
The only way ive found to keep up with nanite generation and have it feel like it used to, is to slowdown the room so my attacks go off slower and I have more time to build up nanites.
After that, maybe we should go through our skills with a fine comb and see how things can possibly be changed?
Have to say that having rested so much hope on the next balancing pass to fix a few things, it leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth to come up with a bunch of nerfs.
Outside of lacking for damage in regards to affliction/subsystem based routes (something other classes have little shortage of) and therefore having to give up offensive momentum for repairing in any matchup that isn't a mirror, there's really not much that's weak. While I can't say yet, it seems likely this is a problem that gets lesser and lesser the higher your level is though that will still depend on the relative damage output of your opponent. So, small adjustments here and there yes, but, overall, everything works quite well.
Previously, Analyze was much too strong and made it far too easy to keep key afflictions up without risk, something that would be doubly true now that distract and sluggish don't cure anything. As it is, the new Analyze is still extremely useful and you can know all you need from it, though, it would be awesome if it included muscular status as well given the class can hit muscular via limbdrain. But, knowing the exact afflictions on every subsystem was overboard.
Mind 25% for mindmelt is perhaps harsh, however, the increased affliction check is likely to factor in how it's far easier to use and upkeep sluggish and distract now, both of which are of course, mind afflictions, so I've no problem with that.
Anyway, suggestion wise, I would adore a way to do something like 'oblivion mindmelt [swap]' to swap to the required channel if needed and you have swap balance, because, as is, it's cumbersome to use swap given the game's queue limitation, something that could also perhaps be applied to Timeline so that it's more user friendly, especially for people with higher latency, to use the off-balance aspect of the skill.
Following the changes (particularly to speedup affecting mobs), I tweaked my bashing a bit to this:
- swap or channel traveller
- speedup
- swap or channel progenitor
- multistrike
- freeze
- swarm
--- reapply freeze if it fades
--- repair when health is below 75%ish
--- use negation to interrupt attacks
My time to kill is around 34-37s, after all that fiddliness. Meanwhile, in Engineer, all I need is around 350 lessons for bot claw, bot swing, stimjector, and qpc turret for a TTK of 18-21s.
A 13-second difference (minimum) is a lot. I get the allure of the challenge, but I sort of wish that after all of the necessary abilities needed for nanoseer bashing that it'd at least match up to other classes.
edit: my gear
- Ilyos (August 2019)
On PvE department I was too accustomed to hunt with Traveller, now it does not give any advantage but works as a lethal fast-forward button.
Overally I did not feel too much increase or reduction in PvE performance, except Roomdrain is quite useful if there is only one mob in the room and we can upkeep Affinity easier now.
Edit: Go read the BEAST thread, that's hilarious, and it's from a class that is still top tier in bashing.
What key afflictions are you talking about? It'd make it possible to keep track of distract and sluggish, but everything else is either random or smartly afflicting. Muscular isn't important to us, really, as mind and sensory are the only ones that give feedback into wetwiring, but being able to see everything wasn't really as overpowered as you seem to think.
Mind 25% for mindmelt is definitely a crazy nerf to the class, increasing the afflictions needed was understandable, considering distract and sluggish, but those two affs are just as hard as any other to stick when we can't see what afflictions they have/they cure, and overlapping them wastes balances.
I previously suggested some kind of swap combo command. Whether it's like you said, or just something like OBLIVION SWAP CONQUERER <ability>, I still think that'd be handy.
I really wish we could see what confound delivered so we could guess better whether it doubled up (still wouldn't know for sure since the prior aff may have gotten cured).
Also, re: not doing damage. Damage is hinder in this game since it forces the opponent to go off balance for non-offensive moves more often. But most damage classes also deliver frequent hinder afflictions like damaged limbs---staggering too in beast's case. Distract/sluggish are stronger than an ordinary damaged limb affs but are making up for both those affs and the hinder from damage itself for us. I don't think them being easier to stick is a bad thing. If we, for example, waste a balance because we try to distract when there aren't 3 affs or try to sluggish when distract just got cured, we're essentially hindering ourselves more rather than our opponents when they already had heavy hinder on us.
It honestly might be cool if we could tie the damaged limb affs into our offense more in some smaller way (since they offer damage and hindering affs like most classes can as part of their main offense). Maybe an ability that directly damages wetwiring based on muscular affs. Or maybe limbdrain could drain health into yourself, healing you, so you can sometimes use it instead of repair (it obviously wouldn't heal as much as repair, though, so not a total replacement).
On a completely different note, I really think NANO ORDER balance has to be much smaller (like 1.5 seconds) since control already has a 3 second balance, you can only order within ten seconds of control, and it also has a substantial CD. Control also shouldn't require quite so many nanites.
Number of mind affs: 3
Mind system: 100%
Number of sensory affs: 2
WW system: 100%
Freeze level: 3
It's got everything we need, no question. I just don't really see a reason for nerfing it. People liked it. It wasn't OP. And we have other weaknesses (like not dealing damage) that are fairly major so I think people just think "wtf" when something that wasn't even crazy is changed.
List of things that need changing:
- Recall
- Swarm
- Confound
- Distract
- Eyestrike (Sensory affs)
- Affinity
- Control
- Disarm
- Reconstruct
- Levitation as a whole.
- Freeze
- Calm
- Shatter
- Drain
- Rattle
- Barrage
- Swap
- Passive Empyreal Bonuses
- Mark
- Extend
- Distribution
- Grounding
- Interdict
- Ripples
A few of these will go unused whether they're fixed or not, but it'd be nice to at least have them as options.Swarm damage needs increasing or something along those lines. No idea what's up with damage formula but if you're going to make us use a vastly weaker ability before it, then please.
Confound needs to smart afflict if you're keeping mindmelt at 25%.
Why does distract even need 3 affs? Just make it available at any time.
We've been told Sensory will be getting more affs, just need to wait for that to happen.
I forgot Sluggish but point I made about distract. Give us it straight up.
Affinity... I don't think this will see use.
Control nanites and order balance needs to be reduced as Arista said, alternatively, just reduce nanite costs and I'd like if it added to a special type of command queue personally.
Disarm... ???
Reconstruct, change this to constructing new props instead or something.
Propgrab, Propdrop, Hurl, Drag and all that stuff just needs some looking at.
Freeze should either be duration or curable, not both.
Calm is just... Not comparable with stuff like Warmth. Like, wow...
Shatter still needs stuff done with it. I'm not sure what, but it's absurd right now. It could be incredibly easy with 2 nanoseers in a way that other instakills aren't. I'm asking for a nerf for once.
Drain... Needs something... Maybe it should heal or something at least, or replenish your own resources.
Rattle is somewhat laughable unless you're ready to burst someone with like 4 scoundrels.
Make barrage not hit yourself why is this a thing.
Swap, I think had cooldown reduced, step in the right direction, I forgot about that.
The passive Empyreal bonuses seem to have had no impact before the changes and still now. Traveller is possibly the most interesting out of the options.
Mark needs to have some limitations removed, or extra functionality.
Extend needs to have more uses and be based on the item's original durability if it isn't. Cost reduction so we can make a profit would be nice.
Distribution as I've said before either needs to protect the Nanoseer or not distribute damage to them.
Grounding is just... Bizarre. It cancels EM damage for about 3 balances. I'm... Really not sure how impact this is, my guess is "not very" since no one seems to have any intention of moving to EM.
Interdict needs... Something done to it. Give it a period it can't be stopped for or something. Reduce the cooldown, remove the cooldown. Just do something.
Ripples... Make it affect enemies only or better, not allies.
Maybe the same for Maladies, but that's an afterthought.
Honestly, most of those things are fine. I agree about control (less nanite cost, less order bal), drain (needs to do something besides just resource drain because the amount drained isn't really a net gain), and interdict (needs no or much shorter CD), but otherwise none of those things are actually useless.
The confound/distract/sluggish could use some tweaking, but not in all of the ways you're saying. If confound didn't double up, for example, distract would be fine as is because you'd be able to reliably predict 3 affs. Honestly, though, just being able to see when something is cured (not what is cured) would solve pretty much all of our problems there. Even just a lingering effect of analyze. If an aff is cured/wears off in the next few seconds after analyze, your nanites detect it as they're leaving the person. Not what is cured, just that something is cured, so nano can lose the rng of affs being cured between analyze and whatever they are doing next.
Alternatively, I really don't think it'd hurt to have more tells as to when distract and/or sluggish is stuck. Beast sees everytime they armvice you whether staggering is still stuck because you stagger. It'd be nice if we saw "person moves sluggish to act" when they do things while sluggish.
Suggestion: Increase requirement, reduce curing.
Rather than flat out showing everything cured at all times, perhaps a skill, possibly through envelop, that allows a limited window in which you can see enemy curing or even a skill that allows you to watch for the curing of a certain afflictions of your choosing. Or even a display such as: 'x cured an affliction of the mind'. This would make it more interesting than blanket information of knowing everything at all times, kind of like how if someone eats a kelp with clumsy/asthma/weariness you can't always right away be sure what they healed and that leads into more interesting combat.
However! Since Wuff has decided to nae say virtually everything and even gone so far as to basically insult me, I feel there's little point trying to hold any sort of discourse here.
I definitely don't feel we need to be reducing currently available nanites anymore.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
There shouldn't be a "top meta" and that kind of thinking goes against the idea of balance in the first place.
Pretending Nanoseer is top-tier in pretty much any regard just marks you out as a dumbass with no clue, like, come on, it's like being a fucking climate change denier.
@Aya And quite literally nothing of value was lost on this day.
If you have a free class change still available, try out Engineer for a day or so. You literally just need Bots Swing (interrupt, 112 lessons) + Gadgets Stimjector (75 lessons) + Turrets QPC (157 lessons).
- Ilyos (August 2019)