Lets talk about Nanoseers abilities. Nanoseer General

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  • SairysSairys Posts: 215Member ✭✭✭
    Wuff said:
    Sairys said:
    There's a couple handy things with that lesson investment just the groupings split them up.

    Negation blocks the next incoming attack, ripples seems like might be handy if you group up with other nanos (ripple then coordinate to hit different targets), sunderer itself buffs nano damage.

    I guess my frustration is that making full use of all of that with frenzy is soo many balances between each fight if you're only using frenzy at the start. (I.e end combat in sunderer > swap progenitor > negation > channel off > channel conqueror > frenzy > sunderer start combat) but that many balances is generally more than enough to kill something appropriate for my level.
    Negation can be kind of ignored. It’s nice if you can apply it as a free buff before battle, but eh. Fury hits between the blocks, Nanoseers have our DoT stuff (and damage isn’t what we should be doing anyway) 

    Ripples will hit your allies, and if used hunting, will hit multiple mobs and aggro them into you. Nanoseer Damage is subpar too, so.

    Sunderer isn’t worth the effort and isn’t going to see much use other than Breakdown.

    Our best oblivion technique is to stay in Conqueror or Traveller then to cast Frenzy/Speedup every fight, alongside your two obligatory repairs.

    I might throw up some ideas to rework some Oblivion stuff.

    After that I’ll do Voidism and Nanotech, so people have a clearer idea about what I’m complaining about and how I think things should work compared to how they do.
    I'm just bashing at the moment, but that would be why I noted the frustration at how we have these potentially useful tools in our kit but the gating well... gates them out of usefulness.

    If I could use the ones I noted together (excluding ripples) i'd probably be able to kill the small leeches and algerions in Goribar without being hit, in turn being able to take two or three at a time without worrying about pausing for a breather. The large leeches I'd also take down more easily.

    A tweak that enables this might be having an empyreal that combines the bashing utilities of other empyreals, while ensuring that doesn't break PvP of course and I'd defer to experienced PvPers on that.
    Avatar by berserkerelf!
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    The Oblivion Tree I'd like to see.

    -------------------------------< Abilities in Oblivion >-------------------------------
    Ability Info Lessons
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Channel Channel the Empyreal power. 
    Swap Instantly swap to another Empyreal. 
    Awareness Speed up your channeling. 
    Flex Stretch beyond your grasp.         Allows the Nanoseer to use Oblivion abilities outside of their channel. OBLIVION FLEX <Ability> TARGET. 15 second cooldown, +10-15% sanity cost.
    Omnichannel More power, for a price.         Allows channels to all Empyreals to be opened. Each additional Empyreal locks 5% sanity, +5% per channel. Uses lowest sanity recovery.

    The Conqueror

    Conqueror Channel the power of the Conqueror.         
    Frenzy Drive yourself into a reckless frenzy.         Become a Toggle/Defence which costs 3% sanity per proc. This will rapidly add up to make up for the difference.         
    Mindmelt Melt a weakened mind.
    Maladies Spread the love. And maladies.         Add a bank of Maladies. MALADIES BANK
    Dominate Make them kneel.         Prone those in the room, and prevents standing for a short time (5 seconds), or if the Nanoseer acts. 30% Sanity. 45 second cooldown.  

    The Traveller

    Traveller Channel the power of the Traveller. 
    Mark Mark a room, then travel to it later.         Marks can be re-used, and marks are less limited.
    Flow Determine the flow of a battle.       Combines Speedup/Slowdown, and gives the option to remove the effects. OBLIVION FLOW SPEED/SLOW/NORMAL.
    Focalize Journey through time and space.       Acts like a combination of Glade of Isolation from Achaea and MajorSixth from Lusternia. FOCALIZE then JOURNEY TO <LANDMARK>
    Timeline Manipulate the time itself.         Reduce sanity cost by 10% or even just 5%.

    The Architect

    Architect Channel the power of the Architect. 
    Invisibility Now you see me, now you do not. 
    Efficiency Become more efficient. 
    Extend Extend the duration of your items.       Allow this to be used multiple times. Perhaps consider making this work from base durability. Cost may need to be tinkered with?
    Distribution We have enough pain for everyone.         Protect the Nanoseer or don't distribute damage to them.

    The Progenitor

    Progenitor Channel the power of the Progenitor. 
    Cure Cure a random effect.         Adds cured afflictions to your bank of maladies.
    Grounding Become immune to EM attacks. 
    Negation No.         Blocks afflictions and adds them to your bank of maladies.
    Interdict Declare the Interdict of the Progenitor.          Reduce cooldown, drastically. 3 minutes is not acceptable for an ability that takes 1 balance to interrupt when Heartstart exists.

    The Sunderer

    Sunderer Channel the power of the Sunderer. 
    Destruct Destroy an item.         Extend the use of this to Workstations and many other currently indestructible items.
    Ripples Spread ripples through your foes.         Make this ACTUALLY only work against foes/mobs or not work on allies.
    Quake A mighty quake.         A chance to prone wouldn't hurt anyone. 
    Breakdown Break down the Wetwiring of another. 
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Changes:

    Affinity has been removed.

    Disrupt has been removed.

    Frenzy becomes a toggle or defence which consumes Sanity when procced. 

    Jolt has been removed.

    Speedup/Slowdown have been combined into Flow, which can be ended by a third option.

    Maladies has a bank of afflictions which can be stored and unleashed.

    Mark can be re-used and no longer has restrictions on placement.

    Timeline has a reduced cost.

    Extend has multiple uses and works on base item durability.

    Distribution either protects the Nanoseer or doesn't deal damage to them on proc.

    Cure adds afflictions to the maladies bank.

    Negation adds afflictions to the maladies bank.

    Interdict has a lowered cooldown.

    Destruct has expanded target list.

    Ripples does what it says on the tin.

    Quake has a chance to prone.

    Additions:

    Flex has been added.

    Omnichannel has been added.

    Dominate has been added.

    Focalize has been added.
  • zacczacc Posts: 98Member ✭✭✭
    I like negation as it is. In PvP, probably not so great (I don't PvP so IDK), but it's been very useful and convenient for me in PvE. Played the glass cannon build in other games, so being able to negate damage even if for a single hit is nice, particularly when bashing.
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    I'm not sure if it blocks affs or not, haven't done any testing but my assumption from what I've seen in how it interacts with other stuff would be no.
  • AristaArista Posts: 59Member ✭✭
    edited January 10
    I too use negation a ton as is in pve.

    Your maladies suggestion is way too OP since the drawback is supposed to be you have to let yourself be afflicted if you want a big bomb. Getting to maladies affs you block and cure gives you best of both worlds. Why remove affinity and jolt? I love Jolt in theory (it seems bugged atm, as it hasn't reduced a single CD but I bugged it).

    Flex and omnichannel kind of eliminate the point of swap, so I think it'd make more sense to just remove swap CD like I mentioned before.

    I think I'd like the balance cost of speedup/slowdown reduced. You're giving a buff or penalty to everyone so it doesn't seem like it has to cost an attack's worth of balance. I think it should be close to free in terms of balance.

    Interdict CD is too long, I agree.


    Ronin
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    Arista said:
    I too use negation a ton as is in pve.

    Your maladies suggestion is way too OP since the drawback is supposed to be you have to let yourself be afflicted if you want a big bomb. Getting to maladies affs you block and cure gives you best of both worlds. Why remove affinity and jolt? I love Jolt in theory (it seems bugged atm, as it hasn't reduced a single CD but I bugged it).

    Flex and omnichannel kind of eliminate the point of swap, so I think it'd make more sense to just remove swap CD like I mentioned before.

    I think I'd like the balance cost of speedup/slowdown reduced. You're giving a buff or penalty to everyone so it doesn't seem like it has to cost an attack's worth of balance. I think it should be close to free in terms of balance.

    Interdict CD is too long, I agree.


    Maladies as it is can't even be described as situational. The allies being hit are one more nail in the coffin that is that ability outside of fighting another Nanoseer  1v1. Bear in mind that Scoundrels can unleash a minimum of 3 afflictions of a subsystem of their choice on an enemy in the time it takes to balance once. If not interrupted, for example if someone misses it or is badly balanced, that's 6 affs potentially.

    Why would you want to keep Affinity...?

    Jolt seems to be a justification for our high cooldowns, I have a vast bounty of hate for this ability for that reason. On the other hand, it sort of encourages you to just blow off all your cooldowns then Jolt, which isn't fun either.

    Flex removes the need to mess around with re-applying buffs etc or just the general clunkyness of Nanoseer. Omnichannel isn't a perfect solution, but offers a way of dealing with our limitations to an extent. One or the other would work fine, perhaps even alongside Swap. I'm not sure. 

    Speedup reduces the casting time by the amount you use to cast it. I'd assume slowdown does the opposite? 

    Interdict CD is one of my biggest complaints, which are vast and plentiful.
  • IllidaenIllidaen Posts: 39Member
    Yes, slowdown does the obvious opposite room-wide slowdown mobs/players alike. 
  • zacczacc Posts: 98Member ✭✭✭
    Maladies doesn't respect the allies list?
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11
    NOTHING respects the allies list. This has been another one of many out of our biggest complaints. It also hits every single bot, so if you cast that in a room with two engineers you’re getting spammed to death.
    Illidaen
  • zacczacc Posts: 98Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11
    Is that a bug or intended? What is the purpose of enemies/allies lists if abilities aren't going to use them.
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    zacc said:
    Is that a bug or intended? What is the purpose of enemies/allies lists if abilities aren't going to use them.
    Same for distribution, though that seems intended.

    I think it's intended. Engineer turrets use the lists I believe? Maybe other stuff does. Can't really say. The fluff for Maladies suggests that it's intended to hit allies.

    I'm not sure whether I prefer this instead of throwing out stuff like Lusternian Aeonics Timewarp, which was an absolute joke.

    It does predominantly hurt Nanoseers though it seems.

    Bear in mind our abilities hurt us, no idea why they wouldn't hurt our allies.


  • AristaArista Posts: 59Member ✭✭
    It'd be nice if we could see when wetwiring procs, even if we can't see what it cures. Maybe add that as an effect to rattle, even. Currently, rattle seems like a lesser version of wireblock so that could add a unique element to it.
    IllidaenRonin
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11
    Voidism needs some touching.

    Edit: We should 100% not go down the path of leaving our awful skills as they are because we have one or two powerful skills. Especially when our powerful skills are relatively weak.
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    * The concept of limb damage has been removed; it was one of the early concepts, and unfortunately didn't work well in Starmourn combat. The "damaged X" afflictions that affect balance/damage remain.

    * Limbdrain (Voidism) now gives the "damaged X" afflictions (muscular)

    * Shatter (Voidism) pre-requisites changed - we'll be making more tweaks here during the Nanoseer update

    -- SHATTER (Voidism) ----------------------------------------------------------
    If the grasp of your void kith has sufficiently drained your foe of energy you can end their suffering in a final instant of agony and shatter their semi-frozen body. At least 7 stacks of freeze are required. 10 stacks of frozen count as one fully frozen limb.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Uh... That doesn't read properly.
  • SozaSoza Posts: 71Member ✭✭
    edited January 11
    Re read, Its now 7 stacks of freeze

  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    Which are... Impossible to get to Solo but probably incredibly easy in a group?
  • PoetPoet Posts: 55Member ✭✭
    Let's talk about the information skill group.  I like scan, and I love alertness- now that I've coded them both to ignore all the bots and turrets that clutter up our world. Analyze is good too. That leaves, of course: envelop, relay and control.  I'm not really a fan of these three skills, but I'm willing to hear if people find them useful.

    Envelop seems like it should be a stealth skill, but it has an effect line. I'm sure everyone has already coded in the 'that was nothing right' line with a highlight to show that they've been infiltrated. That pretty much removes it from being an information skill and makes it combat-utility, in that if you aren't in combat- you are about to be, cause nobody wants to be surveilled. And that basically leaves its only purpose as a pre-req for relay and control.  Yes, I know you can envelop some things that aren't players, but there's still a notification. In any case, aren't Scoundrel's supposed to be the spies? 

    Relay would let you follow someone around I suppose, but I just don't feel the love for it.  Plus it's gated behind envelop and it's just not useful enough to have a pre-req in my opinion, especially when you can't do any of it while invisible or with stealth. So, you can hear what they hear and follow them around, but they are SO going to know you are doing it. It basically makes us the creepiest, most obvious stalkers of all time.

    Control is clearly not an informational skill at all. It's what let everyone steal things in MKO, but since you can't have anyone give you anything its usefulness is limited to screwing with priorities or having them unwield things. Remove the prereq and put it somewhere else if we need to keep it.

    I'd personally be happy to lose all three of these and have them replaced with something that provided additional information. Something that let you probe a terminal and set it to a lower challenge level perhaps, or smart dust that we could leave that would record people moving through an area.
    [Cassandra]: Poet will be unsurprised to learn that she has unread news.
    Ronin
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    Personally, I'd like to see us control an individual swarms of Nanites which we base our information skills from.

    Nano Hive 
    HIVE STATUS
    HIVE SWARM
    HIVE MULTISTRIKE
    HIVE EYESTRIKE
    HIVE ECHOING
    HIVE CONFOUND
    HIVE DISTRACT
    HIVE SLUGGISH
    HIVE ANALYZE
    HIVE WIREBLOCK
    HIVE MINDSWAP
    HIVE ZAP
    HIVE ENVELOP
    HIVE CONTROL

    Not going to happen tho!
  • AristaArista Posts: 59Member ✭✭
    I like relay, moreso for chasing someone you are in combat with than stalking someone. 

    Control would be cool if it didn't cost a ridiculous amount of balance. You have to use control, but then you also have to order them, and ordering has like a 4 second balance iirc.
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    -- CONTROL (Nanotech) ---------------------------------------------------------
    Skill: Nanotech
    Group: Information
    Command: NANO CONTROL <TARGET>
    Cooldown time: 120.00 seconds
    Resources required: 5.00M nanites
    Nanites are tied up while the ability is in effect.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -- ENVELOP (Nanotech) ---------------------------------------------------------
    Your nanites also have ears. Envelop your foe with the listening swarm and hear all that your target hears.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Skill: Nanotech
    Command: NANO ENVELOP <TARGET>
    Resources required: 1.00M nanites
    Nanites are tied up while the ability is in effect.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     ;) 

    10/10 design, honestly whoever comes up with this stuff is a genius.
  • SairysSairys Posts: 215Member ✭✭✭
    The gating with relay seems like it lets you use it remotely which can be handy cause you could bring it up if they got away.

    Also with control couldn't you time a delay with forcing the target to remove a relevant defence? Or something similar in a group situation. Maybe forcing an Empyreal swap?

    Just remembering that one of the bigger uses for Pooka's in Lusternia (which also let you control an enemy) was turning off a defence which opened up a strategy the defence otherwise prevented.
    Avatar by berserkerelf!
  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    Which defences are going to be turned off?

    Pooka is superior to Control if I remember how they worked properly.

    We have another way of stripping defences that doesn't take 4 seconds balance and will most likely fail since enemies queue actions.

    Ordering someone to swap to another empyreal sets them back by about 2.63 seconds. It sets you back by 7 seconds and ties up half your maximum nanites. If you use miniaturisation...

    We actually have Disrupt to do that, and it costs less balance and has more of a chance of succeeding. 


  • ShinonomeShinonome Posts: 167Member ✭✭✭
    Just some general nanoseer feedback, if any devs happen to read this:

    Currently I feel like nanoseer bashing is the least newbie-friendly of all the classes. Multistrike-freeze-swarm is very weak without some of the higher investment buffs, and suffocate is difficult to use without triggers to auto refresh it every time a mob hits you.

    I'd like to suggest experimenting with the following changes:
    -Keeping up freeze, multistrike, and healing yourself leaves very little room for swarm. So first, I'd like to suggest extending freeze. If it can't simply be lengthened due to standard affliction curing times, I suggest making freeze apply 2 stacks for every cast in pve.
    -Make multistrike tick 5 times instead of 3, reducing the number of times it needs to be recast.
  • RoninRonin Posts: 43Member
    edited January 18
    Shinonome said:
    Just some general nanoseer feedback, if any devs happen to read this:

    Currently I feel like nanoseer bashing is the least newbie-friendly of all the classes. Multistrike-freeze-swarm is very weak without some of the higher investment buffs, and suffocate is difficult to use without triggers to auto refresh it every time a mob hits you.

    I'd like to suggest experimenting with the following changes:
    -Keeping up freeze, multistrike, and healing yourself leaves very little room for swarm. So first, I'd like to suggest extending freeze. If it can't simply be lengthened due to standard affliction curing times, I suggest making freeze apply 2 stacks for every cast in pve.
    -Make multistrike tick 5 times instead of 3, reducing the number of times it needs to be recast.
    Extending freeze would actually make shatter viable, depending on how long it's extended. As it stands one stack of freeze lasts for 9s(on mobs at least), and stacking any amount of freeze on a target is nearly impossible solo unless they're prioritizing something other than afflictions.

    The aff can be cured by WW, and also passively wears off, making it very unreliable when it comes to sticking it. You would need to afflict and damage subsystems enough that you can get off 13 freezes in a row without being interrupted or them running. At this point you can more than likely breakdown or mindmelt much quicker.

    tldr: extending freeze will make PVE better, while also helping make shatter a more viable kill route

    log of the shatter, her prios were health-sys-aff:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/502565140521025577/535094476729876490/unknown.png
  • NuzirNuzir Posts: 11Member
    Latest balancing update on Nanoseers is out:
    -- Updates - #96 --------------------------------------------------------------
    Date: 01/18/2019 at 17:02
    Author: Garryn, the Reshaper
    Subject: Balancing pass: Nanoseer.
    Nanotech:
    * Analyze now only shows information relevant for the class instakills, not a full diagnose
    * Distract and Sluggish no longer cure an affliction, they just give one
    * Architect empyreal now correctly reduces the tied nanite costs
    Voidism:
    * The 'frozen' affliction now gives internal damage for each stack, not only for the first one
    * The 'frozen' affliction stacks now wear off every 8 seconds (up from 6)
    * Roomdrain now gives 3 'frozen' stacks to each target, and its cooldown has been reduced
    * Rattle now reduces healing abilities too, although the effect is smaller than the one on wetwiring
    * Soothe is now fixed and heals more
    * Suffocate formula rescaled a bit
    Shatter may now be too weak or too strong, going to wait and see how things work out.
    Oblivion:
    * Sanity now regens faster
    * Swap cooldown reduced
    * Mindmelt now requires 6 mental afflictions and 75% mind damage (up from 5 and 50%)
    * Storing a timeline no longer consumes balance or sanity - you still need to have enough sanity to do this, however. The cooldown for storing the timeline remains, but is now shorter.
    * Speedup/slowdown now correctly affect mobs
    * Jolt should now be fixed, also increased its effect
    * Fixed some Oblivion abilities to not be considered aggressive
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's a small thing, I guess, but I'm glad to see that Soothe is fixed. There is one bit of it that I still find a bit odd flavor-wise: Void Soothe doesn't affect your sanity recovery, despite it having you "feeling a sense of perfect balance and control in your efforts" as you meditate on the void. I suppose the escape clause here is that it has you "focus your control of the void on drawing the harmful energy out of your cells", but it still seems strange...

  • WuffWuff Posts: 238Member ✭✭✭
    As I've said before, I have absolutely no clue why people feel like Nanoseers need to lose anything to grow stronger. We are, as a class, not in a good place. Even those who are saying "It's all fine" have their issues with how things work.
  • SozaSoza Posts: 71Member ✭✭
    edited January 18
    I'm enjoying the changes so far, Haven't been able to test everything. But I feel like I generate less nanites now and run out way more often. Is it just me?

    Edit1: I even switched over to Progenitor, Still feels like I generate too little.
    I've also tested Progenitor, same feeling. 
    Before I just stayed in Traveller 100% of the time pmuch and had no nanite generation issues.
  • MatlkaelMatlkael Posts: 201Member ✭✭✭
    I am guessing it is speedup affecting mobs. More Repairs needed; plus, each balance used for Repair is a balance not used for Swarm, and so, fights are also a bit longer.
    itsa Mereas!
  • SozaSoza Posts: 71Member ✭✭
    Matlkael said:
    I am guessing it is speedup affecting mobs. More Repairs needed; plus, each balance used for Repair is a balance not used for Swarm, and so, fights are also a bit longer.
    I used speedup before when killing mobs, I tried not using it now that its changed and It doesnt matter either way. I normally dont use repair while hunting until the creature is dead or im about to be.
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