A giddy sense of vertigo wrenches at your equilibrium as you activate a personal teleporter, materializing at your destination in an instant. A dinky, run-down teleport pad. [NPCs]: a Kronish Cross rockhopper, a Kronish Cross rockhopper, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper [Items]: 2 engineers' workstations, a broad and heavy bench, a broad and heavy bench (flipped), a personal teleporter, and a recessed doorway There is a personal teleporter here. KEY PTP to activate it. [e] -> A crowded, claustrophobic tunnel [sw] -> A row of personal lifts Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] nano charge You start generating nanites. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [-W-] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 7.00M SA: 100.00% [BW-] miniaturisation At your direction, your swarm begins to divide and subdivide, the microscopic machines cannibalizing each other to build even smaller versions of themselves. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 100.00% [-W-] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] [b]Pixellated fragments of light shift and mirror the surroundings as the form of Syacalla emerges from cold storage.[/b] Health: 1700/1700 NN: 4.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] channel architect You reach into your connection to the void, stretching through it to touch the darkness at the end of the galaxy and the beginning of time, where the Architect and its raw power wait for your hand to wield it. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 4.50M SA: 95.00% [-W-] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 4.50M SA: 95.00% [BW-] With a strained chitter, a Kronish Cross rockhopper takes an awkward hop to the southwest. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] efficiency [b]Reaching into the void, you draw in a deep breath, tasting the inner workings of every molecule. Under the influence of the Architect, your precision crystalizes, every effort ridden by a vast, alien efficiency.[/b] Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 85.00% [-W-] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 85.00% [BW-] multiswarm With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins swirling violently around your feet.The shadow of the Architect is always cascading through your mind with its perfect, fractal order, allowing you the efficiency to use that ability without losing your resources. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 91.00% [-W-] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 91.00% [BW-] multiswarm With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins swirling violently around your feet.The shadow of the Architect is always cascading through your mind with its perfect, fractal order, allowing you the efficiency to use that ability without losing your resources. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 91.00% [-W-] Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area, finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts. Your nanites hit Syacalla, a Kronish Cross rockhopper, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 91.00% [-WC] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 97.00% [BWC] multiswarm (Scatterhome): Solus says, "Piercer run." Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 97.00% [BWC] With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins swirling violently around your feet.The shadow of the Architect is always cascading through your mind with its perfect, fractal order, allowing you the efficiency to use that ability without losing your resources. [b]The feeling of utmost efficiency wears off.[/b] Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 97.00% [-WC] Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area, finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts. You have slain a Kronish Cross rockhopper. Your nanites hit Syacalla, a Kronish Cross rockhopper, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 97.00% [-WC] (Scatterhome): Ylouhoboroch says, "This one notes that very tough things tend to have a profusion of pieces fall off, out and from them." Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 97.00% [-WC] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 97.00% [BWC] A large Kronish Cross rockhopper jabs forward with a huge pincer, taking a chunk of your flesh with it. Health: 1609/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 97.00% [BWC] multiswarm With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins swirling violently around your feet.Health: 1677/1700 NN: 2.15M SA: 97.00% [-WC] A large Kronish Cross rockhopper hops awkwardly in from the east. Health: 1677/1700 NN: 2.15M SA: 100.00% [-WC] Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area, finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts. You have slain a large Kronish Cross rockhopper. You salvage a tangled heap of entrails from the lifeless remains. Your nanites hit Syacalla, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, a large Kronish Cross rockhopper, and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper. Health: 1677/1700 NN: 2.15M SA: 100.00% [-WC] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1677/1700 NN: 3.15M SA: 100.00% [BWC] multiswarm With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins swirling violently around your feet.Health: 1677/1700 NN: 1.80M SA: 100.00% [-WC] Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area, finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts. Your nanites hit Syacalla, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper. Health: 1677/1700 NN: 1.80M SA: 100.00% [-WC] Syacalla fiddles with her wetwiring, then grows very still. Health: 1677/1700 NN: 1.80M SA: 100.00% [-WC] You have recovered your balance. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 1.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] Bunching all ten legs beneath itself, a large Kronish Cross rockhopper springs for your neck, pincers digging painfully into your skin. Health: 1592/1700 NN: 2.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] (Scatterhome): Solus says, "If you want in then TELL me." Health: 1592/1700 NN: 2.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area, finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts. You have slain a large Kronish Cross rockhopper. Congratulations, you've earned the Kill honor! See HONORS SHOW KILL for more details. Syacalla falls lifelessly to the ground, slain by Cise. Your actions increase your influence in Scatterhome. Your nanites hit Syacalla, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper. Health: 1592/1700 NN: 2.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] (Scatterhome): Ylouhoboroch says, "That is to say, the tougher the thing you hunt the more junk you get." Health: 1592/1700 NN: 2.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] ql A dinky, run-down teleport pad. [NPCs]: a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel [Items]: 2 engineers' workstations, a broad and heavy bench, a broad and heavy bench (flipped), a personal teleporter, a recessed doorway, and the broken corpse of Syacalla There is a personal teleporter here. KEY PTP to activate it. [e] -> A crowded, claustrophobic tunnel [sw] -> A row of personal lifts Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] say whoops You say, "Whoops." Health: 1700/1700 NN: 4.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] honors syacalla -- Syacalla ------------------------------------------------------------------- Race: Amaian Experience Rank: #1026 Gender: Female Exploration Rank: #881 Faction: Scatterhome () Captaincy Rank: #0 Lawless: No Honors Rank: #0 Marital Status: Unmarried ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] (Scatterhome): Beardedwhispers says, "Odd." Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] syacella sorry about that You have entered an invalid command. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BWC] You are no longer in the throes of battle. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] (Scatterhome): Solus says, "Oi, for the people whose lacking influence. Join this piercer run." Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] syacella sorry about that You have entered an invalid command. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] ft oh count me in (Scatterhome): You say, "Oh count me in." Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] Solus has invited you to join a crew. CREW ACCEPT to accept the invitation. Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] crew accept You have joined Solus's crew.
Specifically on the use of efficiency here. Is it working?
I played around with bashing attacks again for a bit today. I tried upping the number of freezes and mixing in eyestrike in the hope that maybe it'd process blurry vision for a bit of damage reduction. Here's what I found:
Eyestrike is too unreliable as you only have a 1 in 3 chance of getting anything useful out of it, and even if you do luck out the damage reduction is unremarkable. Basically, it just bogs the whole thing down. You are measurably slower to kill if you use it. (More than the 3 seconds of balance, as it throws off freeze synergy and everything else down the line).
I found best results with multistrike, freeze x2, then swarm. I had just been putting freeze back when it faded, but applying it twice seemed noticeably more effective. (and I'd still put it back if they managed to clear it all). Three freezes didn't seem like it was worth it, too much time spent on prep, and not enough doing real damage with swarm.
I played around with bashing attacks again for a bit today. I tried upping the number of freezes and mixing in eyestrike in the hope that maybe it'd process blurry vision for a bit of damage reduction. Here's what I found:
Eyestrike is too unreliable as you only have a 1 in 3 chance of getting anything useful out of it, and even if you do luck out the damage reduction is unremarkable. Basically, it just bogs the whole thing down. You are measurably slower to kill if you use it. (More than the 3 seconds of balance, as it throws off freeze synergy and everything else down the line).
I found best results with multistrike, freeze x2, then swarm. I had just been putting freeze back when it faded, but applying it twice seemed noticeably more effective. (and I'd still put it back if they managed to clear it all). Three freezes didn't seem like it was worth it, too much time spent on prep, and not enough doing real damage with swarm.
*Edit- opening with suffocate is interesting. I just got it, so I'll have to play around a little more.
I have found dropping speedup and pointzero in a room before i start that cycle to make the two freezes worth frontloading. Usually adds 30ish % to the freeze damage. Put up speedup first and use queueing to be most efficient with it.
EDIT for clarity: my cycle is speedup>pointzero>multi>freezex2>swarmtodead. Havent hit higher areas yet and while it does feel slower than beast or scoundrel, I don't feel like i am cutting it as close as I was as fury. (Granted, I didn't play with fury for very long.)
I only drop Pointzero once every 10 or so bashes when I remember to. It's 2 and a bit seconds before combat begins but the effort to do it just doesn't process when I have to initiate every combat with speedup and actually think about bashing due to multistrike freeze freeze swarm swarm swarm swarm being our combo.
I mean, for now, that is the bashing map but it sounds like they will expand our options and balance them more as time goes on. I look forward to having to learn how to deal with different PvE threats with different affs and such. Eventually, that seems like the goal.
For slow mobs, you can get more benefit from a Suffocate opening. It is possible get 2-3 ticks of Suffocate which benefit from Frenzy and Pointzero then finish with usual combinations. That helped me quite much at Scrapston and Goribar Farm areas, since it is populated by slow mobs. Plus since Suffocate is a channeling attack that means at your last tick (2nd, 3rd and rarely 4th) you have balance so you can immediately start attacking which means your initial investment to start Suffocate is not wasted totally.
Perhaps Nanoseer PvE might not be the most straightforward or efficient, but so far it has been quite fun at my own end.
I only drop Pointzero once every 10 or so bashes when I remember to. It's 2 and a bit seconds before combat begins but the effort to do it just doesn't process when I have to initiate every combat with speedup and actually think about bashing due to multistrike freeze freeze swarm swarm swarm swarm being our combo.
I just added in a VOID POINTZERO at the front of my bashing attacks (multistrike, freeze, swarm, eyestrike) because attempting to do it doesn't cost balance if there's already a pointzero in the room, and it almost always lasts long enough to clear a room of mobs to bash.
Mereas Eyrlock "They're excited, but poor." - Ilyos (August 2019)
So first let me say I think Nanoseer has a lot of potential. I don’t agree with people saying they’re weak either. I saw people earlier in the thread asking about void vacuumsphere. Drops an orb that explodes for a lot of damage after what seems to be a varying time frame of 6-10 seconds?. Extra if they’re frozen. Even more if pointzero is down. I’m level 68. My voidsphere currently hits mobs I’m bashing for 1000 if they’re frozen, 1200 if frozen and pointzero, 1500 with frenzy up(with 0 points in psyche. If I max psyche it breaks 2k) If I’m hunting difficult mobs I’ll run conqueror and start every fight with frenzy (mobs in the 65+ areas). If I’m in thait or quarry I run sunderer because frenzy ends up just being a wasteful balance. My bashing rotation kills every mob I fight in 5 rounds, at the sacrifice of 600 self inflicted damage.
Vac Sphere > Multistrike > Freeze > Swarm > Swarm
As far as my thoughts with pvp...I think if you’re just head planting into people without full access to your kit and fully understanding things.
I think Nanoseer as it currently is in 1v1 requires a lot of set up, planning, and picking your battles.
I want to experiment maxing psyche, setting up a room with pointzero and speedup. Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks, drop a void sphere, and then start spamming freeze. With max psyche and pointzero down my freeze starts at 350 and grows to dealing 480 (600 with frenzy). So hitting for decent damage with freezes as a 1500+ damage sphere hits (self inflicts around 900 if it’s hitting that hard, still think it’s worth it), and your delayed attacks start coming through. In 3 combat rounds you’re hitting for pretty heavy damage, 3 freeze stacks (I’m not sure if vacuumsphere applies a 4th), and whatever delayed whether you chose to do The beginning of a mental affliction stack with confound/eyestrike, or raw damage and subsystem damage with multistrike/multiswarm/swarm.
Then timeline, pax or interdict and set up a few more delays and a sphere (I think you’ll be able to do 3 balances before needing to revert). Revert them as the delays start coming in and the orb is about to hit (orb is tough because the timer feels random to me, delay feels like 9 seconds but I’m not sure.
Still not really sure about EM damage. Not sure if it’s bugged or I just don’t understand what it is or how it works, but if it does work and we can land affinity on a target, that combined with frenzy and a techcraft maxed Nanoseer..., you can really frontload a ton of damage.
yeah I’ve been up all night bashing and these are my morning ramblings about what I’m envisioning the class be able to do.
So first let me say I think Nanoseer has a lot of potential. I don’t agree with people saying they’re weak either. I saw people earlier in the thread asking about void vacuumsphere. Drops an orb that explodes for a lot of damage after what seems to be a varying time frame of 6-10 seconds?. Extra if they’re frozen. Even more if pointzero is down. I’m level 68. My voidsphere currently hits mobs I’m bashing for 1000 if they’re frozen, 1200 if frozen and pointzero, 1500 with frenzy up(with 0 points in psyche. If I max psyche it breaks 2k) If I’m hunting difficult mobs I’ll run conqueror and start every fight with frenzy (mobs in the 65+ areas). If I’m in thait or quarry I run sunderer because frenzy ends up just being a wasteful balance. My bashing rotation kills every mob I fight in 5 rounds, at the sacrifice of 600 self inflicted damage.
Vac Sphere > Multistrike > Freeze > Swarm > Swarm
As far as my thoughts with pvp...I think if you’re just head planting into people without full access to your kit and fully understanding things.
I think Nanoseer as it currently is in 1v1 requires a lot of set up, planning, and picking your battles.
I want to experiment maxing psyche, setting up a room with pointzero and speedup. Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks, drop a void sphere, and then start spamming freeze. With max psyche and pointzero down my freeze starts at 350 and grows to dealing 480 (600 with frenzy). So hitting for decent damage with freezes as a 1500+ damage sphere hits (self inflicts around 900 if it’s hitting that hard, still think it’s worth it), and your delayed attacks start coming through. In 3 combat rounds you’re hitting for pretty heavy damage, 3 freeze stacks (I’m not sure if vacuumsphere applies a 4th), and whatever delayed whether you chose to do The beginning of a mental affliction stack with confound/eyestrike, or raw damage and subsystem damage with multistrike/multiswarm/swarm.
Then timeline, pax or interdict and set up a few more delays and a sphere (I think you’ll be able to do 3 balances before needing to revert). Revert them as the delays start coming in and the orb is about to hit (orb is tough because the timer feels random to me, delay feels like 9 seconds but I’m not sure.
Still not really sure about EM damage. Not sure if it’s bugged or I just don’t understand what it is or how it works, but if it does work and we can land affinity on a target, that combined with frenzy and a techcraft maxed Nanoseer..., you can really frontload a ton of damage.
yeah I’ve been up all night bashing and these are my morning ramblings about what I’m envisioning the class be able to do.
You can only delay one attack at a time, and it eats up your nanites doing it too much.
Ignore the distract route, it's counter-productive in most cases, and just ends up costing you momentum. (you didn't mention it, just throwing it out there for others )
For pax, you want delay and mindswap up. Mindswap does 2% mind per tick, and because you stuck them up before the pax went into effect they're still going to hit through it, allowing you to heal/cure while keeping up a bit of pressure. Don't forget you have maladies as well.
Seer is not a damage class. If you're fighting and you use vacuumsphere you're just as likely to bugger yourself. Most other classes have a higher damage output, and hitting yourself will only make it that much more likely that you'll get damaged out.
You could drop sphere and crash out, but from testing and trying this, even with groundfreeze, it rarely hit them, or if it does i'm in there with them still and get myself with the damage as well.
Em damage seems to wear off too quickly to be of any use right now, but I've been managing mindmelts without paying any attention to zap/affinity, or even freeze.
focus mind subsys damage via confound, mindswap, and minddrain. Confound is still unreliable and difficult to use, but a mindmelt is possible in combat, and I've killed a decent scoundrel in 2/3 fights using it.
If you guys want to work on stuff in the arena, feel free to come up with an IC reason to poke me! I like testing and learning as well.
Interdict is a channel. You can't do anything with it up or it goes down.
Anyway, I've been playing around with nanoseer and here are my preliminary thoughts:
1. Timeline costs half your insanity and has to be used twice to have any impact at all. This means you can't really use it without going insane unless you use efficiency, but efficiency is in a different channel, which makes it extremely costly balance-wise to use and very awkward.
Channel Architect - 2.63 seconds (2.1 with affinity) Efficiency - 3 seconds (2.4 with affinity) Swap traveller/timeline store - 3 seconds (2.4 with affinity) Timeline revert - 3 seconds (2.4 with affinity)
I think timeline should maybe only cost 30 or 40 sanity instead of 50.
2. Somewhat relatedly, it's very awkward to switch channels mid-combat in general. I think Swap CD should either be reduced or removed entirely (with the increased sanity cost as the limitation on use).
3. It'd be cool if Mindswap could swap sensory afflictions for mind ones, as well as mind ones for mind ones, so we had a way to pressure sensory and mind at the same time. As is, if we focus sensory, we can't use our passive afflict, which makes focusing mind usually much better.
4. The fact that distract cures an affliction, to me, makes it entirely worthless to use. It's really hard to stack afflictions against affliction priority and if you cure your own affliction to replace it with another, that other just ends up getting cured right away. Distract already has a penalty in the sense that you waste a balance if they don't have 3 mentals. It shouldn't also cure an aff.
5. Same as 4 with Sluggish. It cures distraction. Trying to stick sluggish is somewhat ridiculous, since you cure one mental with distract, then another with sluggish, all while trying to outpace their curing. It already wastes a balance if they don't have distract. It should just give sluggish on top of distract, not cure distract.
6. I couldn't stick 5 levels of freeze at all, even on someone just standing there. Limbdrain is also very slow, considering you need that and 5 stacks of freeze. It'd probably be fine if pointzero made limbdrain do twice as much limb damage, and freeze give two stacks of frozen. You can leave room to counter it, anyway, and the route still wouldn't be insanely fast since it's so slow currently.
It kind of also feels like limbdrain should give some affliction, though, such as muscular affs (damaged left leg, etc.). The lack of affliction and subsystem damage during substantial prep makes it a very unappealing route. Maybe even tie it into sensory damage instead. Limbdrain could do sensory damage, and freeze could deliver more frozen stacks at once if sensory is damaged a certain amount. Then it also works well with the wetwiring route, like the mind route does.
7. Nanoseers should have a way to avoid frozen ground. Maybe a form of levitation that doesn't put you on a different elevation, but is a defense that makes you ignore frozen ground.
The mind route works reasonably well at the moment, and I love Pax.
So first let me say I think Nanoseer has a lot of potential. I don’t agree with people saying they’re weak either. I saw people earlier in the thread asking about void vacuumsphere. Drops an orb that explodes for a lot of damage after what seems to be a varying time frame of 6-10 seconds?. Extra if they’re frozen. Even more if pointzero is down. I’m level 68. My voidsphere currently hits mobs I’m bashing for 1000 if they’re frozen, 1200 if frozen and pointzero, 1500 with frenzy up(with 0 points in psyche. If I max psyche it breaks 2k) If I’m hunting difficult mobs I’ll run conqueror and start every fight with frenzy (mobs in the 65+ areas). If I’m in thait or quarry I run sunderer because frenzy ends up just being a wasteful balance. My bashing rotation kills every mob I fight in 5 rounds, at the sacrifice of 600 self inflicted damage.
Vac Sphere > Multistrike > Freeze > Swarm > Swarm
As far as my thoughts with pvp...I think if you’re just head planting into people without full access to your kit and fully understanding things.
I think Nanoseer as it currently is in 1v1 requires a lot of set up, planning, and picking your battles.
I want to experiment maxing psyche, setting up a room with pointzero and speedup. Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks, drop a void sphere, and then start spamming freeze. With max psyche and pointzero down my freeze starts at 350 and grows to dealing 480 (600 with frenzy). So hitting for decent damage with freezes as a 1500+ damage sphere hits (self inflicts around 900 if it’s hitting that hard, still think it’s worth it), and your delayed attacks start coming through. In 3 combat rounds you’re hitting for pretty heavy damage, 3 freeze stacks (I’m not sure if vacuumsphere applies a 4th), and whatever delayed whether you chose to do The beginning of a mental affliction stack with confound/eyestrike, or raw damage and subsystem damage with multistrike/multiswarm/swarm.
Then timeline, pax or interdict and set up a few more delays and a sphere (I think you’ll be able to do 3 balances before needing to revert). Revert them as the delays start coming in and the orb is about to hit (orb is tough because the timer feels random to me, delay feels like 9 seconds but I’m not sure.
Still not really sure about EM damage. Not sure if it’s bugged or I just don’t understand what it is or how it works, but if it does work and we can land affinity on a target, that combined with frenzy and a techcraft maxed Nanoseer..., you can really frontload a ton of damage.
yeah I’ve been up all night bashing and these are my morning ramblings about what I’m envisioning the class be able to do.
Vacuumsphere nukes you in exchange for most of it's damage, and gives people a more than reasonable chance to take cover. If anything, it is a pretty good way of forcing people to move, but I wouldn't say that it's the best at dealing damage in any way. Outgunned could hit for similar numbers in the same time frame while actually doing something before about 15 seconds into a fight. The 600 damage you're dealing to yourself will also bring every mob onto you and seems pretty risky.
The talk about not understanding things is way off the mark when you've sort of badly stumbled through numbers tested against... Mobs...? Also, not max level, so opinion invalid by the rules of these types of conversations on balance?
Again, you seem to not understand how things work, so these types of comments are just blatant shitflinging and casting vague shade at people without being honest about it?
Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks... To do what? Land 4 of potentially the same affliction after long into a fight with no damage pressure or other pressure?
No one is headplanting into people without full access of our kit. Myself and Ronin have tested quite a few of these things, both of us have sufficient lessons to test stuff out, and I think both of us have used our class resets to test things out of our reach. The stuff we can't test out from other classes we've looked at other people for. The only people that seem to be behind us in bashing by your numbers are Engineers by one balance, but they don't nuke themselves to do it.
"Picking our battles" means not fighting anyone unless they're a subpar combatant or haven't used their skills and stats properly.
You realise the damage you deal to mobs is drastically increased than what you deal to players, right? The damage you'll be doing to enemies is more similar to the damage you're taking. Except some enemies will have better resistance. Some worse, too, but still.
What exactly are you doing with Pax and Vacuumsphere? Or Timeline/Interdict?
Your vision doesn't work. Nanoseer needs some work done. Please stop trying to fuck with that?
So first let me say I think Nanoseer has a lot of potential. I don’t agree with people saying they’re weak either. I saw people earlier in the thread asking about void vacuumsphere. Drops an orb that explodes for a lot of damage after what seems to be a varying time frame of 6-10 seconds?. Extra if they’re frozen. Even more if pointzero is down. I’m level 68. My voidsphere currently hits mobs I’m bashing for 1000 if they’re frozen, 1200 if frozen and pointzero, 1500 with frenzy up(with 0 points in psyche. If I max psyche it breaks 2k) If I’m hunting difficult mobs I’ll run conqueror and start every fight with frenzy (mobs in the 65+ areas). If I’m in thait or quarry I run sunderer because frenzy ends up just being a wasteful balance. My bashing rotation kills every mob I fight in 5 rounds, at the sacrifice of 600 self inflicted damage.
Vac Sphere > Multistrike > Freeze > Swarm > Swarm
As far as my thoughts with pvp...I think if you’re just head planting into people without full access to your kit and fully understanding things.
I think Nanoseer as it currently is in 1v1 requires a lot of set up, planning, and picking your battles.
I want to experiment maxing psyche, setting up a room with pointzero and speedup. Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks, drop a void sphere, and then start spamming freeze. With max psyche and pointzero down my freeze starts at 350 and grows to dealing 480 (600 with frenzy). So hitting for decent damage with freezes as a 1500+ damage sphere hits (self inflicts around 900 if it’s hitting that hard, still think it’s worth it), and your delayed attacks start coming through. In 3 combat rounds you’re hitting for pretty heavy damage, 3 freeze stacks (I’m not sure if vacuumsphere applies a 4th), and whatever delayed whether you chose to do The beginning of a mental affliction stack with confound/eyestrike, or raw damage and subsystem damage with multistrike/multiswarm/swarm.
Then timeline, pax or interdict and set up a few more delays and a sphere (I think you’ll be able to do 3 balances before needing to revert). Revert them as the delays start coming in and the orb is about to hit (orb is tough because the timer feels random to me, delay feels like 9 seconds but I’m not sure.
Still not really sure about EM damage. Not sure if it’s bugged or I just don’t understand what it is or how it works, but if it does work and we can land affinity on a target, that combined with frenzy and a techcraft maxed Nanoseer..., you can really frontload a ton of damage.
yeah I’ve been up all night bashing and these are my morning ramblings about what I’m envisioning the class be able to do.
Vacuumsphere nukes you in exchange for most of it's damage, and gives people a more than reasonable chance to take cover. If anything, it is a pretty good way of forcing people to move, but I wouldn't say that it's the best at dealing damage in any way. Outgunned could hit for similar numbers in the same time frame while actually doing something before about 15 seconds into a fight. The 600 damage you're dealing to yourself will also bring every mob onto you and seems pretty risky.
The talk about not understanding things is way off the mark when you've sort of badly stumbled through numbers tested against... Mobs...? Also, not max level, so opinion invalid by the rules of these types of conversations on balance?
Again, you seem to not understand how things work, so these types of comments are just blatant shitflinging and casting vague shade at people without being honest about it?
Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks... To do what? Land 4 of potentially the same affliction after long into a fight with no damage pressure or other pressure?
No one is headplanting into people without full access of our kit. Myself and Ronin have tested quite a few of these things, both of us have sufficient lessons to test stuff out, and I think both of us have used our class resets to test things out of our reach. The stuff we can't test out from other classes we've looked at other people for. The only people that seem to be behind us in bashing by your numbers are Engineers by one balance, but they don't nuke themselves to do it.
"Picking our battles" means not fighting anyone unless they're a subpar combatant or haven't used their skills and stats properly.
You realise the damage you deal to mobs is drastically increased than what you deal to players, right? The damage you'll be doing to enemies is more similar to the damage you're taking. Except some enemies will have better resistance. Some worse, too, but still.
What exactly are you doing with Pax and Vacuumsphere? Or Timeline/Interdict?
Your vision doesn't work. Nanoseer needs some work done. Please stop trying to fuck with that?
If you had've read the post right below that one, I outlined most of this, but without being a dick about it. You've just parroted what other people said since.
Re: Picking our battles...no. I've been killing Mavis, Jakoby, Ren, etc using nanoseer. Once again, you need to learn what your skills do. Run the numbers, figure out your kill route, and practice.
I haven't used a class reset but I am tri-trans e. I don't think we've actually done any testing, but if we have it was before mindswap and some other stuff was fixed? I haven't sparred any other seers but @Arista and I got my ass handed to me, but definitely learned from it.
damage between players and mobs isn't very drastic, about 25% more against mobs from what I've seen(Not that I've really checked for this. Just going off the numbers I remember from vacsphere/barrage)
Nanoseer does need work, but I don't think @Vorn denied that anywhere? It's unwieldy, unreliable, and frustrating at times, but it's not really weak anymore.
If you are a little Nanoseer reading this and looking to get into combat, you will want Delay in Nanotech, Mindmelt in Oblivion, and Minddrain in Voidism. These will give you the bare minimum required to get a kill. It's not as complex skill-wise as it might seem, and I'm more than willing to help out. OOC tells aren't an issue either.
I've read the same stuff about 5 times now, it's absurd and wrong. Yes, Nanoseer can pull off kills, but it's not based on skill or "knowing your stuff," it's based on your enemy not knowing how to deal with you, which will become less and less of a thing as time goes on.
I know what my skills do. As I've said, I've reset my skills to test stuff out, quit with the garbage "learn your skills" because I know what they do pretty well.
The mindswap fix resolved one of our biggest issues, but it doesn't make our entire kit magically and suddenly good.
How exactly are you killing Mavis...? She's a Scoundrel. Is she AFK while you're doing this or just not trying? She could literally bash combo you to death from what I've seen of Scoundrel numbers.
Damage between players and mobs is the difference between the damage you take and the damage mobs take.
I don’t agree with people saying they’re weak either.
I think if you’re just head planting into people without full access to your kit and fully understanding things.
I want to experiment maxing psyche, setting up a room with pointzero and speedup. Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks, drop a void sphere, and then start spamming freeze. With max psyche and pointzero down my freeze starts at 350 and grows to dealing 480 (600 with frenzy). So hitting for decent damage with freezes as a 1500+ damage sphere hits (self inflicts around 900 if it’s hitting that hard, still think it’s worth it), and your delayed attacks start coming through. In 3 combat rounds you’re hitting for pretty heavy damage, 3 freeze stacks (I’m not sure if vacuumsphere applies a 4th), and whatever delayed whether you chose to do The beginning of a mental affliction stack with confound/eyestrike, or raw damage and subsystem damage with multistrike/multiswarm/swarm.
Then timeline, pax or interdict and set up a few more delays and a sphere (I think you’ll be able to do 3 balances before needing to revert). Revert them as the delays start coming in and the orb is about to hit (orb is tough because the timer feels random to me, delay feels like 9 seconds but I’m not sure.
yeah I’ve been up all night bashing and these are my morning ramblings about what I’m envisioning the class be able to do.
These un-bolded comments are what makes me think that this person is shitflinging straight away, especially when it's very clear that this isn't the case.
The bolded comments are pretty alarming to see, I have no idea how anyone is bashing in high level areas if they're freezing enemies to death, the fact that things that are literally impossible/worthless is even more alarming. Timeline/Pax/Interdict comments seem pretty bizarre?
None of this would work in PVP of course. There's a lot of cases where Nanoseer gets absolutely fucked out of nowhere in PVP but I'd rather not advertise them too much so early on.
Wuff I apologize if you feel like I was shit-flinging. As I mentioned at the bottom of the post I had been up all night bashing fueled by coffee and energy drinks and was laying in bed half asleep reading all this with one eye open. I wish I hadn't felt so moved to post at the time because I was delirious and rambling like crazy, and it took me a good 25 minutes to compose that rambling post. I admit a lot of it didn't make sense, or was inaccurate. I also realize that my numbers are purely pulled very vaguely from the recent bashing I had been doing.
My overall thoughts basically are me just feeling like Nanoseer is getting a lot of shit right now as a class from people and I don't see how that can be possible for a game and class that are only a few weeks old. There's a lot to still figure out, especially how having max level, max level gear and armor/weapon mods will play out.
Edit: I also explained my bashing rotation, which is not freezing people to death. Depending on the mob I am fighting
It’s not as bad as you’re making it out to be though. Arista has been doing mostly okay with Nano, with some more levels I’m sure she can kill 90% of anything that won’t damage her out
Yea, at least as far as hunting is concerned, I've never had to hunt below my level. Just got to 40 and went to Delta Deck, I'm fine as long as I pay attention to what I'm doing.
Wuff I apologize if you feel like I was shit-flinging. As I mentioned at the bottom of the post I had been up all night bashing fueled by coffee and energy drinks and was laying in bed half asleep reading all this with one eye open. I wish I hadn't felt so moved to post at the time because I was delirious and rambling like crazy, and it took me a good 25 minutes to compose that rambling post. I admit a lot of it didn't make sense, or was inaccurate. I also realize that my numbers are purely pulled very vaguely from the recent bashing I had been doing.
My overall thoughts basically are me just feeling think Nanoseer is getting a lot of shit right now as a class from people and I don't see how that can be possible for a game and class that are only a few weeks old. There's a lot to still figure out.
I'm sorry I assumed that. I don't think you're fully wrong, Nanoseer has a lot of potential, but all that potential is out of reach for players at the moment, and as time goes on, I imagine more of our options will probably vanish.
Pax would work if used after a vacuumsphere, but this would give the mob a chance to cure every single stack of frost on it.
Interdict wouldn't work at all.
The reason Nanoseer is getting a lot of shit is because the way classes have turned out is pretty unbalanced. Nanoseer happens to be at the bottom of the chart in quite a few ways. Our kit is full of subpar options.
Our most unique ability is to go invisible, though we can extend items by 10% once by paying 500 marks... Probably not going to be useful as it first seems when we get artifacts
Our spying is subpar even when not using this
Our most fun things have drawbacks that make the skills not worth even using.
People keep constantly saying the class is fine, it's not.
Our damage is lower than other classes can attain unless we go to great lengths and also take damage ourselves. Taking three balances to do what other classes do in one is not fun.
Other classes do what people claim our strong points are better than we do.
Jakoby is a scoundrel though. And uh...I healed, focused mind via confound/mindswap, and interrupted their unload with eyestrike. Right now mindswap is giving distract which is counter-productive, and pretty annoying, but the passive subsys damage is nice and definitely helps speed up.
Once again. I don't think anyone said it was perfect as it is. All of the classes need work, and Nanoseer is definitely rough, but you're making it sound way worse than it really is and I don't think you've done much testing since the updates that nerfed scoundrel's damage and fixed some of our skills @Awruun / @Wuff
If you knew your skills like you're saying, you wouldn't think our spying is so bad, our subsystem damage can outpace most others, and extend will be useful. They've already said there's not going to be arti weapons or armors.
Well... You're wrong. I don't really know any other way to say this, but you're just wrong, Ronin...
I know my skills. Our spying is broken by a LOOK, and I imagine there are a hundred other ways that scripts could probably circumvent it without any real effort.
The only time I've ever heard about Nanoseer spying was you being enemied to Song for being caught out doing it, meanwhile there are like 5 unbreakable (still?) bugs in some places at any given time.
Extend is 10% once for 500 marks. At 100, that's 10 days, at 120, that's 12.
I imagine we'll have artifacts to place on weapons which will make them permanent. There's already plans to make them resetting, so.
If we don't get weapon artifacts, it's more likely that people will just cycle weapons upwards. There seems to be a decent amount of variance between items of the same levels for this to be a concern.
Extending entire armour sets for 10-12 days seems... Not viable.
It also doesn't touch the repair costs either, which I imagine will be far more noticeable when/if people stick to one set of armour or weapons for a long time.
It's all well and good to look on the positive side of things and be all rose-coloured in our views towards stuff, but in the end, when we end up being weaker than every other class and lacking the clear role that other classes have, you can only blame yourself for not making yourself heard or airing what you feel is wrong about it.
Edit: And the only numbers and testing I've seen from you are you being nearly killed by sub-20 players.
Well... You're wrong. I don't really know any other way to say this, but you're just wrong, Ronin...
I know my skills. Our spying is broken by a LOOK, and I imagine there are a hundred other ways that scripts could probably circumvent it without any real effort.
The only time I've ever heard about Nanoseer spying was you being enemied to Song for being caught out doing it, meanwhile there are like 5 unbreakable (still?) bugs in some places at any given time.
Extend is 10% once for 500 marks. At 100, that's 10 days, at 120, that's 12.
I imagine we'll have artifacts to place on weapons which will make them permanent. There's already plans to make them resetting, so.
If we don't get weapon artifacts, it's more likely that people will just cycle weapons upwards. There seems to be a decent amount of variance between items of the same levels for this to be a concern.
Extending entire armour sets for 10-12 days seems... Not viable.
It also doesn't touch the repair costs either, which I imagine will be far more noticeable when/if people stick to one set of armour or weapons for a long time.
It's all well and good to look on the positive side of things and be all rose-coloured in our views towards stuff, but in the end, when we end up being weaker than every other class and lacking the clear role that other classes have, you can only blame yourself for not making yourself heard or airing what you feel is wrong about it.
Edit: And the only numbers and testing I've seen from you are you being nearly killed by sub-20 players.
A look? I'm not sure what you mean, but I got enemied for that because I was sneaking nanites into ships and meetings they had in private areas without ever enveloping a single person. I'm sorry you haven't /actually/ tested stuff enough to learn how this is possible. The only reason they found out i was spying is because I TOLD them I was, btw. The one I told even tried breaking everything in their ship to try and figure out how i was listening in.
yeah, peeps will likely be cycling through weapons and armor pretty often, but 10% for 500mk isn't bad. How much does a level 70 weapon cost? 5k to keep a decent weapon around for twice as long, and being able to do this as often as we'd like, is not bad at all.
Our role is the crazy dude that sacrifices themselves for the team. Oblivion is way to situational, and for the most part i just spam delay and confound which makes it almost laughable to fight with, but nanoseer isn't /weak/ it just needs to be tweaked to be able to keep up to decent combatants. Especially considering how much damage the other classes can lay down without any prep.
Those numbers aren't the only testing I've done, and still more than you've offered. Let's not devolve to veiled insults yea? The log with Nykara was more to show how easy it is to damage out other classes as a beast, even at level 12.
This is supposed to be a productive discussion, and as i mentioned above, all of the classes need balancing. Seer is definitely not great at combat, but neither of us is level 70+ yet either.
A look? I'm not sure what you mean, but I got enemied for that because I was sneaking nanites into ships and meetings they had in private areas without ever enveloping a single person. I'm sorry you haven't /actually/ tested stuff enough to learn how this is possible. The only reason they found out i was spying is because I TOLD them I was, btw. The one I told even tried breaking everything in their ship to try and figure out how i was listening in.
yeah, peeps will likely be cycling through weapons and armor pretty often, but 10% for 500mk isn't bad. How much does a level 70 weapon cost? 5k to keep a decent weapon around for twice as long, and being able to do this as often as we'd like, is not bad at all.
Our role is the crazy dude that sacrifices themselves for the team. Oblivion is way to situational, and for the most part i just spam delay and confound which makes it almost laughable to fight with, but nanoseer isn't /weak/ it just needs to be tweaked to be able to keep up to decent combatants. Especially considering how much damage the other classes can lay down without any prep.
Those numbers aren't the only testing I've done, and still more than you've offered. Let's not devolve to veiled insults yea? The log with Nykara was more to show how easy it is to damage out other classes as a beast, even at level 12.
This is supposed to be a productive discussion, and as i mentioned above, all of the classes need balancing. Seer is definitely not great at combat, but neither of us is level 70+ yet either.
Enemies can LOOK at invisible people. I'd assume that with some minor scripting they'd be able to tell if you were in a room or not. I do need to test some stuff with Invisibility here, but in other IREs and in this, invisibility is pretty much a gimmick.
Not... One of these skills allows you to do that? There's not really anything to be done, it's just flat out impossible to manipulate nanites like that...? Are you enveloping bots or something...???
I've actually tested Extend. You can use it once on an item. I said this before. It's also 10% of the current durability, so you'd better make sure you like that weapon pretty soon because the value you get out of Extend will start to drop fast.
If the other classes are dealing massive amounts of damage straight away and we are not, then surely, we're relatively weak?
We also don't even really sacrifice ourselves for the team. We sacrifice ourselves to hurt... Mainly ourselves... Our enemies... AND our allies. Wow.
I've actually done a fair bit of testing, hence how I know about extend, and why I've been driving a lot of these conversations, but... You know, carry on...
Productive conversations go like this:
Issue > Discussion > Solution.
Not like this:
Issue > "Stop Whining" > Issue brought up again > "This is Beta" > This Is A Pretty Big Issue, How Many Times Does It Need Re-Iterating > "Everything is Fine."
zap is useless which means affinity is useless. drain is useless, interdict is useless the whole class is either broken or useless
I don't understand comments like this. It astounds me when people honestly believe they are furthering discussions with this sort of slippery slope.
Turn this thread into suggestions for improvement rather than whinging. Then you have something useful for the growth of the game.
Shit like this is literally the most unhelpful stuff ever. What are you even doing by saying this? You're just pretending issues aren't there. "Stop whinging."
"Two of our trans skills don't work" and in all honesty, wouldn't even be that great if they did work?
"Stop Whinging." "Slippery Slope." "I don't understand comments like this." "It Astounds Me."
What? Excuse me? What exactly is being contributed with your comment? Instead of telling people to stop whinging and provide suggestions, how about you provide suggestions?
I'm fully aware that this is an old conversation, but this pattern over and over again is just wasting time and getting everyone wound up, so can we stop it please?
A look? I'm not sure what you mean, but I got enemied for that because I was sneaking nanites into ships and meetings they had in private areas without ever enveloping a single person. I'm sorry you haven't /actually/ tested stuff enough to learn how this is possible. The only reason they found out i was spying is because I TOLD them I was, btw. The one I told even tried breaking everything in their ship to try and figure out how i was listening in.
yeah, peeps will likely be cycling through weapons and armor pretty often, but 10% for 500mk isn't bad. How much does a level 70 weapon cost? 5k to keep a decent weapon around for twice as long, and being able to do this as often as we'd like, is not bad at all.
Our role is the crazy dude that sacrifices themselves for the team. Oblivion is way to situational, and for the most part i just spam delay and confound which makes it almost laughable to fight with, but nanoseer isn't /weak/ it just needs to be tweaked to be able to keep up to decent combatants. Especially considering how much damage the other classes can lay down without any prep.
Those numbers aren't the only testing I've done, and still more than you've offered. Let's not devolve to veiled insults yea? The log with Nykara was more to show how easy it is to damage out other classes as a beast, even at level 12.
This is supposed to be a productive discussion, and as i mentioned above, all of the classes need balancing. Seer is definitely not great at combat, but neither of us is level 70+ yet either.
Not... One of these skills allows you to do that? There's not really anything to be done, it's just flat out impossible to manipulate nanites like that...? Are you enveloping bots or something...???
Just tested and yeah there's a few things you can envelop which could be, or end up, in a secure location. Smash everything (except props) seems to be the counter
Comments
materializing at your destination in an instant.
A dinky, run-down teleport pad.
[NPCs]: a Kronish Cross rockhopper, a Kronish Cross rockhopper, a deployed turret with a mounted
laser barrel, and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper [Items]: 2 engineers' workstations, a broad and
heavy bench, a broad and heavy bench (flipped), a personal teleporter, and a recessed doorway
There is a personal teleporter here. KEY PTP to activate it.
[e] -> A crowded, claustrophobic tunnel
[sw] -> A row of personal lifts
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] nano charge
You start generating nanites.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [-W-]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 7.00M SA: 100.00% [BW-] miniaturisation
At your direction, your swarm begins to divide and subdivide, the microscopic machines cannibalizing
each other to build even smaller versions of themselves.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 100.00% [-W-]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-]
[b]Pixellated fragments of light shift and mirror the surroundings as the form of Syacalla emerges from
cold storage.[/b]
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 4.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] channel architect
You reach into your connection to the void, stretching through it to touch the darkness at the end
of the galaxy and the beginning of time, where the Architect and its raw power wait for your hand to
wield it.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 4.50M SA: 95.00% [-W-]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 4.50M SA: 95.00% [BW-]
With a strained chitter, a Kronish Cross rockhopper takes an awkward hop to the southwest.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] efficiency
[b]Reaching into the void, you draw in a deep breath, tasting the inner workings of every molecule.
Under the influence of the Architect, your precision crystalizes, every effort ridden by a vast,
alien efficiency.[/b]
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 85.00% [-W-]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 85.00% [BW-] multiswarm
With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin
clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins
swirling violently around your feet.The shadow of the Architect is always cascading through your
mind with its perfect, fractal order, allowing you the efficiency to use that ability without losing
your resources.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 91.00% [-W-]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 91.00% [BW-] multiswarm
With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin
clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins
swirling violently around your feet.The shadow of the Architect is always cascading through your
mind with its perfect, fractal order, allowing you the efficiency to use that ability without losing
your resources.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 91.00% [-W-]
Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area,
finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts.
Your nanites hit Syacalla, a Kronish Cross rockhopper, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel,
and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 91.00% [-WC]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 97.00% [BWC] multiswarm
(Scatterhome): Solus says, "Piercer run."
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 97.00% [BWC]
With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin
clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins
swirling violently around your feet.The shadow of the Architect is always cascading through your
mind with its perfect, fractal order, allowing you the efficiency to use that ability without losing
your resources.
[b]The feeling of utmost efficiency wears off.[/b]
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.00M SA: 97.00% [-WC]
Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area,
finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts.
You have slain a Kronish Cross rockhopper.
Your nanites hit Syacalla, a Kronish Cross rockhopper, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel,
and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 97.00% [-WC]
(Scatterhome): Ylouhoboroch says, "This one notes that very tough things tend to have a profusion of
pieces fall off, out and from them."
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 97.00% [-WC]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 97.00% [BWC]
A large Kronish Cross rockhopper jabs forward with a huge pincer, taking a chunk of your flesh with
it.
Health: 1609/1700 NN: 3.50M SA: 97.00% [BWC] multiswarm
With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin
clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins
swirling violently around your feet.Health: 1677/1700 NN: 2.15M SA: 97.00% [-WC]
A large Kronish Cross rockhopper hops awkwardly in from the east.
Health: 1677/1700 NN: 2.15M SA: 100.00% [-WC]
Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area,
finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts.
You have slain a large Kronish Cross rockhopper.
You salvage a tangled heap of entrails from the lifeless remains.
Your nanites hit Syacalla, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, a large Kronish Cross
rockhopper, and a large Kronish Cross rockhopper.
Health: 1677/1700 NN: 2.15M SA: 100.00% [-WC]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1677/1700 NN: 3.15M SA: 100.00% [BWC] multiswarm
With a few deft gestures, you execute a subroutine within your nanites that causes them to begin
clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized grains, and the newly corporeal swarm begins
swirling violently around your feet.Health: 1677/1700 NN: 1.80M SA: 100.00% [-WC]
Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area,
finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts.
Your nanites hit Syacalla, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, and a large Kronish Cross
rockhopper.
Health: 1677/1700 NN: 1.80M SA: 100.00% [-WC]
Syacalla fiddles with her wetwiring, then grows very still.
Health: 1677/1700 NN: 1.80M SA: 100.00% [-WC]
You have recovered your balance.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 1.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC]
Bunching all ten legs beneath itself, a large Kronish Cross rockhopper springs for your neck,
pincers digging painfully into your skin.
Health: 1592/1700 NN: 2.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC]
(Scatterhome): Solus says, "If you want in then TELL me."
Health: 1592/1700 NN: 2.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC]
Clumping together by the hundreds into sand-sized particles, your nanites rocket throughout the area,
finding every living creature they can to assault with a painful hail of damaging impacts.
You have slain a large Kronish Cross rockhopper.
Congratulations, you've earned the Kill honor! See HONORS SHOW KILL for more details.
Syacalla falls lifelessly to the ground, slain by Cise.
Your actions increase your influence in Scatterhome.
Your nanites hit Syacalla, a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel, and a large Kronish Cross
rockhopper.
Health: 1592/1700 NN: 2.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC]
(Scatterhome): Ylouhoboroch says, "That is to say, the tougher the thing you hunt the more junk you
get."
Health: 1592/1700 NN: 2.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] ql
A dinky, run-down teleport pad.
[NPCs]: a deployed turret with a mounted laser barrel [Items]: 2 engineers' workstations, a broad
and heavy bench, a broad and heavy bench (flipped), a personal teleporter, a recessed doorway, and
the broken corpse of Syacalla
There is a personal teleporter here. KEY PTP to activate it.
[e] -> A crowded, claustrophobic tunnel
[sw] -> A row of personal lifts
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 3.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] say whoops
You say, "Whoops."
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 4.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] honors syacalla
-- Syacalla -------------------------------------------------------------------
Race: Amaian Experience Rank: #1026
Gender: Female Exploration Rank: #881
Faction: Scatterhome () Captaincy Rank: #0
Lawless: No Honors Rank: #0
Marital Status: Unmarried
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC]
(Scatterhome): Beardedwhispers says, "Odd."
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 5.80M SA: 100.00% [BWC] syacella sorry about that
You have entered an invalid command.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BWC]
You are no longer in the throes of battle.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-]
(Scatterhome): Solus says, "Oi, for the people whose lacking influence. Join this piercer run."
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] syacella sorry about that
You have entered an invalid command.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] ft oh count me in
(Scatterhome): You say, "Oh count me in."
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-]
Solus has invited you to join a crew. CREW ACCEPT to accept the invitation.
Health: 1700/1700 NN: 6.50M SA: 100.00% [BW-] crew accept
You have joined Solus's crew.
Eyestrike is too unreliable as you only have a 1 in 3 chance of getting anything useful out of it, and even if you do luck out the damage reduction is unremarkable. Basically, it just bogs the whole thing down. You are measurably slower to kill if you use it. (More than the 3 seconds of balance, as it throws off freeze synergy and everything else down the line).
I found best results with multistrike, freeze x2, then swarm. I had just been putting freeze back when it faded, but applying it twice seemed noticeably more effective. (and I'd still put it back if they managed to clear it all). Three freezes didn't seem like it was worth it, too much time spent on prep, and not enough doing real damage with swarm.
(Currently level 26, lvl 19 goggles, lvl 25 glove, 200 techcraft, 150 psyche)
*Edit- opening with suffocate is interesting. I just got it, so I'll have to play around a little more.
I have found dropping speedup and pointzero in a room before i start that cycle to make the two freezes worth frontloading. Usually adds 30ish % to the freeze damage. Put up speedup first and use queueing to be most efficient with it.
EDIT for clarity: my cycle is speedup>pointzero>multi>freezex2>swarmtodead. Havent hit higher areas yet and while it does feel slower than beast or scoundrel, I don't feel like i am cutting it as close as I was as fury. (Granted, I didn't play with fury for very long.)
Perhaps Nanoseer PvE might not be the most straightforward or efficient, but so far it has been quite fun at my own end.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
Vac Sphere > Multistrike > Freeze > Swarm > Swarm
As far as my thoughts with pvp...I think if you’re just head planting into people without full access to your kit and fully understanding things.
I think Nanoseer as it currently is in 1v1 requires a lot of set up, planning, and picking your battles.
I want to experiment maxing psyche, setting up a room with pointzero and speedup. Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks, drop a void sphere, and then start spamming freeze. With max psyche and pointzero down my freeze starts at 350 and grows to dealing 480 (600 with frenzy). So hitting for decent damage with freezes as a 1500+ damage sphere hits (self inflicts around 900 if it’s hitting that hard, still think it’s worth it), and your delayed attacks start coming through. In 3 combat rounds you’re hitting for pretty heavy damage, 3 freeze stacks (I’m not sure if vacuumsphere applies a 4th), and whatever delayed whether you chose to do The beginning of a mental affliction stack with confound/eyestrike, or raw damage and subsystem damage with multistrike/multiswarm/swarm.
Then timeline, pax or interdict and set up a few more delays and a sphere (I think you’ll be able to do 3 balances before needing to revert). Revert them as the delays start coming in and the orb is about to hit (orb is tough because the timer feels random to me, delay feels like 9 seconds but I’m not sure.
Still not really sure about EM damage. Not sure if it’s bugged or I just don’t understand what it is or how it works, but if it does work and we can land affinity on a target, that combined with frenzy and a techcraft maxed Nanoseer..., you can really frontload a ton of damage.
yeah I’ve been up all night bashing and these are my morning ramblings about what I’m envisioning the class be able to do.
Ignore the distract route, it's counter-productive in most cases, and just ends up costing you momentum. (you didn't mention it, just throwing it out there for others
For pax, you want delay and mindswap up. Mindswap does 2% mind per tick, and because you stuck them up before the pax went into effect they're still going to hit through it, allowing you to heal/cure while keeping up a bit of pressure. Don't forget you have maladies as well.
Seer is not a damage class. If you're fighting and you use vacuumsphere you're just as likely to bugger yourself. Most other classes have a higher damage output, and hitting yourself will only make it that much more likely that you'll get damaged out.
You could drop sphere and crash out, but from testing and trying this, even with groundfreeze, it rarely hit them, or if it does i'm in there with them still and get myself with the damage as well.
Em damage seems to wear off too quickly to be of any use right now, but I've been managing mindmelts without paying any attention to zap/affinity, or even freeze.
focus mind subsys damage via confound, mindswap, and minddrain. Confound is still unreliable and difficult to use, but a mindmelt is possible in combat, and I've killed a decent scoundrel in 2/3 fights using it.
If you guys want to work on stuff in the arena, feel free to come up with an IC reason to poke me! I like testing and learning as well.
Interdict is a channel. You can't do anything with it up or it goes down.
Anyway, I've been playing around with nanoseer and here are my preliminary thoughts:
1. Timeline costs half your insanity and has to be used twice to have any impact at all. This means you can't really use it without going insane unless you use efficiency, but efficiency is in a different channel, which makes it extremely costly balance-wise to use and very awkward.
Channel Architect - 2.63 seconds (2.1 with affinity)
Efficiency - 3 seconds (2.4 with affinity)
Swap traveller/timeline store - 3 seconds (2.4 with affinity)
Timeline revert - 3 seconds (2.4 with affinity)
I think timeline should maybe only cost 30 or 40 sanity instead of 50.
2. Somewhat relatedly, it's very awkward to switch channels mid-combat in general. I think Swap CD should either be reduced or removed entirely (with the increased sanity cost as the limitation on use).
3. It'd be cool if Mindswap could swap sensory afflictions for mind ones, as well as mind ones for mind ones, so we had a way to pressure sensory and mind at the same time. As is, if we focus sensory, we can't use our passive afflict, which makes focusing mind usually much better.
4. The fact that distract cures an affliction, to me, makes it entirely worthless to use. It's really hard to stack afflictions against affliction priority and if you cure your own affliction to replace it with another, that other just ends up getting cured right away. Distract already has a penalty in the sense that you waste a balance if they don't have 3 mentals. It shouldn't also cure an aff.
5. Same as 4 with Sluggish. It cures distraction. Trying to stick sluggish is somewhat ridiculous, since you cure one mental with distract, then another with sluggish, all while trying to outpace their curing. It already wastes a balance if they don't have distract. It should just give sluggish on top of distract, not cure distract.
6. I couldn't stick 5 levels of freeze at all, even on someone just standing there. Limbdrain is also very slow, considering you need that and 5 stacks of freeze. It'd probably be fine if pointzero made limbdrain do twice as much limb damage, and freeze give two stacks of frozen. You can leave room to counter it, anyway, and the route still wouldn't be insanely fast since it's so slow currently.
It kind of also feels like limbdrain should give some affliction, though, such as muscular affs (damaged left leg, etc.). The lack of affliction and subsystem damage during substantial prep makes it a very unappealing route. Maybe even tie it into sensory damage instead. Limbdrain could do sensory damage, and freeze could deliver more frozen stacks at once if sensory is damaged a certain amount. Then it also works well with the wetwiring route, like the mind route does.
7. Nanoseers should have a way to avoid frozen ground. Maybe a form of levitation that doesn't put you on a different elevation, but is a defense that makes you ignore frozen ground.
The mind route works reasonably well at the moment, and I love Pax.
The talk about not understanding things is way off the mark when you've sort of badly stumbled through numbers tested against... Mobs...? Also, not max level, so opinion invalid by the rules of these types of conversations on balance?
Again, you seem to not understand how things work, so these types of comments are just blatant shitflinging and casting vague shade at people without being honest about it?
Delay 3-4 nano affliction attacks... To do what? Land 4 of potentially the same affliction after long into a fight with no damage pressure or other pressure?
No one is headplanting into people without full access of our kit. Myself and Ronin have tested quite a few of these things, both of us have sufficient lessons to test stuff out, and I think both of us have used our class resets to test things out of our reach. The stuff we can't test out from other classes we've looked at other people for. The only people that seem to be behind us in bashing by your numbers are Engineers by one balance, but they don't nuke themselves to do it.
"Picking our battles" means not fighting anyone unless they're a subpar combatant or haven't used their skills and stats properly.
You realise the damage you deal to mobs is drastically increased than what you deal to players, right? The damage you'll be doing to enemies is more similar to the damage you're taking. Except some enemies will have better resistance. Some worse, too, but still.
What exactly are you doing with Pax and Vacuumsphere? Or Timeline/Interdict?
Your vision doesn't work. Nanoseer needs some work done. Please stop trying to fuck with that?
Re: Picking our battles...no. I've been killing Mavis, Jakoby, Ren, etc using nanoseer. Once again, you need to learn what your skills do. Run the numbers, figure out your kill route, and practice.
I haven't used a class reset but I am tri-trans e. I don't think we've actually done any testing, but if we have it was before mindswap and some other stuff was fixed? I haven't sparred any other seers but @Arista and I got my ass handed to me, but definitely learned from it.
damage between players and mobs isn't very drastic, about 25% more against mobs from what I've seen(Not that I've really checked for this. Just going off the numbers I remember from vacsphere/barrage)
Nanoseer does need work, but I don't think @Vorn denied that anywhere? It's unwieldy, unreliable, and frustrating at times, but it's not really weak anymore.
If you are a little Nanoseer reading this and looking to get into combat, you will want Delay in Nanotech, Mindmelt in Oblivion, and Minddrain in Voidism. These will give you the bare minimum required to get a kill. It's not as complex skill-wise as it might seem, and I'm more than willing to help out. OOC tells aren't an issue either.
I know what my skills do. As I've said, I've reset my skills to test stuff out, quit with the garbage "learn your skills" because I know what they do pretty well.
The mindswap fix resolved one of our biggest issues, but it doesn't make our entire kit magically and suddenly good.
How exactly are you killing Mavis...? She's a Scoundrel. Is she AFK while you're doing this or just not trying? She could literally bash combo you to death from what I've seen of Scoundrel numbers.
Damage between players and mobs is the difference between the damage you take and the damage mobs take.
These un-bolded comments are what makes me think that this person is shitflinging straight away, especially when it's very clear that this isn't the case.
The bolded comments are pretty alarming to see, I have no idea how anyone is bashing in high level areas if they're freezing enemies to death, the fact that things that are literally impossible/worthless is even more alarming. Timeline/Pax/Interdict comments seem pretty bizarre?
None of this would work in PVP of course. There's a lot of cases where Nanoseer gets absolutely fucked out of nowhere in PVP but I'd rather not advertise them too much so early on.
My overall thoughts basically are me just feeling like Nanoseer is getting a lot of shit right now as a class from people and I don't see how that can be possible for a game and class that are only a few weeks old. There's a lot to still figure out, especially how having max level, max level gear and armor/weapon mods will play out.
Edit: I also explained my bashing rotation, which is not freezing people to death. Depending on the mob I am fighting
Vacuumsphere > Freeze > Swarm > Swarm or Vacuumsphere > Multstrike > Freeze > Swarm > Swarm
Pax would work if used after a vacuumsphere, but this would give the mob a chance to cure every single stack of frost on it.
Interdict wouldn't work at all.
The reason Nanoseer is getting a lot of shit is because the way classes have turned out is pretty unbalanced. Nanoseer happens to be at the bottom of the chart in quite a few ways. Our kit is full of subpar options.
Once again. I don't think anyone said it was perfect as it is. All of the classes need work, and Nanoseer is definitely rough, but you're making it sound way worse than it really is and I don't think you've done much testing since the updates that nerfed scoundrel's damage and fixed some of our skills @Awruun / @Wuff
If you knew your skills like you're saying, you wouldn't think our spying is so bad, our subsystem damage can outpace most others, and extend will be useful. They've already said there's not going to be arti weapons or armors.
I know my skills. Our spying is broken by a LOOK, and I imagine there are a hundred other ways that scripts could probably circumvent it without any real effort.
The only time I've ever heard about Nanoseer spying was you being enemied to Song for being caught out doing it, meanwhile there are like 5 unbreakable (still?) bugs in some places at any given time.
Extend is 10% once for 500 marks. At 100, that's 10 days, at 120, that's 12.
I imagine we'll have artifacts to place on weapons which will make them permanent. There's already plans to make them resetting, so.
If we don't get weapon artifacts, it's more likely that people will just cycle weapons upwards. There seems to be a decent amount of variance between items of the same levels for this to be a concern.
Extending entire armour sets for 10-12 days seems... Not viable.
It also doesn't touch the repair costs either, which I imagine will be far more noticeable when/if people stick to one set of armour or weapons for a long time.
It's all well and good to look on the positive side of things and be all rose-coloured in our views towards stuff, but in the end, when we end up being weaker than every other class and lacking the clear role that other classes have, you can only blame yourself for not making yourself heard or airing what you feel is wrong about it.
Edit: And the only numbers and testing I've seen from you are you being nearly killed by sub-20 players.
yeah, peeps will likely be cycling through weapons and armor pretty often, but 10% for 500mk isn't bad.
How much does a level 70 weapon cost? 5k to keep a decent weapon around for twice as long, and being able to do this as often as we'd like, is not bad at all.
Our role is the crazy dude that sacrifices themselves for the team. Oblivion is way to situational, and for the most part i just spam delay and confound which makes it almost laughable to fight with, but nanoseer isn't /weak/ it just needs to be tweaked to be able to keep up to decent combatants. Especially considering how much damage the other classes can lay down without any prep.
Those numbers aren't the only testing I've done, and still more than you've offered. Let's not devolve to veiled insults yea? The log with Nykara was more to show how easy it is to damage out other classes as a beast, even at level 12.
This is supposed to be a productive discussion, and as i mentioned above, all of the classes need balancing. Seer is definitely not great at combat, but neither of us is level 70+ yet either.
I've actually tested Extend. You can use it once on an item. I said this before. It's also 10% of the current durability, so you'd better make sure you like that weapon pretty soon because the value you get out of Extend will start to drop fast.
If the other classes are dealing massive amounts of damage straight away and we are not, then surely, we're relatively weak?
We also don't even really sacrifice ourselves for the team. We sacrifice ourselves to hurt... Mainly ourselves... Our enemies... AND our allies. Wow.
I've actually done a fair bit of testing, hence how I know about extend, and why I've been driving a lot of these conversations, but... You know, carry on...
Productive conversations go like this:
Issue > Discussion > Solution.
Not like this:
Issue > "Stop Whining" > Issue brought up again > "This is Beta" > This Is A Pretty Big Issue, How Many Times Does It Need Re-Iterating > "Everything is Fine."
"Two of our trans skills don't work" and in all honesty, wouldn't even be that great if they did work?
"Stop Whinging." "Slippery Slope." "I don't understand comments like this." "It Astounds Me."
What? Excuse me? What exactly is being contributed with your comment? Instead of telling people to stop whinging and provide suggestions, how about you provide suggestions?
I'm fully aware that this is an old conversation, but this pattern over and over again is just wasting time and getting everyone wound up, so can we stop it please?