Lets talk about Nanoseers abilities. Nanoseer General

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  • MatlkaelMatlkael Posts: 305Member ✭✭✭
    Not sure if it's just me, but I see other classes bashing fine. Meanwhile, at level 23, Tabby Outpost (level 15-25) remains to be the only area I can bash confidently without dying (and dying puts me in negative marks, even after junking). I have multistrike, freeze, swarm, miniaturisation, protect. 200 in lifeforce and regen, 171 in techcraft. My weapons and armour are for level 19-22.
    itsa Mereas!
    Ronin
  • RoninRonin Posts: 43Member
    edited December 2018
    For PVE it's a nice change, and brings our damage up closer to par with the other classes.

     For PVP we have even more damage relying on the frozen aff, which is annoying since shatter is painfully bad solo, and on top of that it's all RNG where confound is concerned. This makes fighting as a nanoseer horribly unreliable and difficult.
  • IllidaenIllidaen Posts: 39Member
    Sagex said:
    Well since I can't delete comments i'm just frustrated with the lack of abilities vs other skills. The item abilities seem weird too me like they are meant more for a general skill. Interdict does not stop damage from occurring, zap is not stacking or doing anything which means affinity can't be used. For voidism vacuumsphere seems not worth it since it can do 500+ damage to you? and outside of eyestrike not sure of any other way fr afflictions to be used 
    Unfortunately, the style of the class is played as a bit of risk/reward. I do agree however that several of the skills aren't doing as it intended too from what I tested and another nanoseer tested with me in the arena and came to similar or if not, the same conclusions. Mangled limbs though varies from what I last recalled AND there's not a visible message that lets either of you know that a limb is broken without having to, of course, use analyze responsibly due to nano resources and the cooldown(which I don't agree with and should have either none or bring it down to 2s). Anyway, I'm not sure, but yet seem to have a hypothesis that your armor resistance to draining plays a role as well as your points placed in the psyche(which for sure increase voidism's damages). From what I noticed though is voidism attacks will do 100+more damage to mobs than to you. Which again I'm thinking it's their resistance is lower than yours. I personally find voidism damage output worth it though, but that's just me. Its mostly in how you manage your resources and how well you handle a risk style class.
    Soza said:
    Minion said:
    Is there a way to capitalize on limbdrain legs? I can't seem to locate a nanoseer skill that knocks a target down.
    Only way ive found so far is to levitate, voidgrab and release them.
    With the new changes levitating up voidgrabbing and then levitating down will automatcially drop them.
    It does prone when you release

    Unfortunately you cannot voidgrab mobs, and usually it takes about 5-6 hits per limb to "Mangle"
    On mobs yes, it would take 5+ drain on a limb to mangle it. By then, unless the mob is super tanky and you're tanky as well, the target will die before you "prepped" both legs if that's what you're intending. In pvp though, tests I did with a fellow nanoseer seemed to always mangled him at 3 drains on a limb. Probably want to test that out on people that wear different armor types to check for consistencies. I'm thinking that knockdowns aren't applied to mobs or seem to have any effect on them. Hallucinations from when I did fury, did frequent knockdowns, but they still at it like it had no effect and this is immediately after they're knocked down. Battleflow attacks that knock them down and stuns were in the same situation. 
  • IllidaenIllidaen Posts: 39Member
    edited December 2018
    Wuff said:
    Do we have a viable way of freezing rooms? 

    I'm not sure if this is hideously OP or out of balance, but an over time freeze move that stacks up the freeze affliction would be really, incredibly useful and make Shatter viable.

    Blizzard? Pointzero upgrade? 

    I don't know what Vacuumsphere DOES still. Does it do something like this? If not, could it do something like this?


    I feel like I've done a LOT of complaining with little input, and now I feel like I'm asking too much. Damn.
    In a sense, yes, but 99% ineffective. Roomdrain is what gives -everyone- but you, a stack of frozen and that's it AND it has a 3 minute CD. This only has a possible potential effect for pvp and it sounds like you have to time the room drain with another room effect that capitalizes off the 1 stack of frost alongside point zero being down in the room. You can play that with a well-timed vacuum sphere. (Which has a 7s delay) before the stack of frost is cured. Vacuum sphere does what barrage do, but does twice as much damage to everyone in the room and you, but slightly less to you on a delay timer. Barrage, on the other hand, would be more reliable, but half the damage and it persists until you do any action or die. I'm all for improving frozen to become more attrition based as you drain a limb, to make the instakill even work as intended.
  • IllidaenIllidaen Posts: 39Member
    Kerek said:
    Definitely an upgrade. Multistrike -> Freeze -> Swarm -> Swarm is my current combo, and it's noticeably more damage now that freeze affects multistrike.
    Or sometimes what I do is Delayed multistrike>freeze(x3)>swarm>swarm>swarm

    The goal you want is to make sure they don't cure freeze in its entirety. I do 3 because, riiiight before the 3rd freeze command, they heal a stack of frost, and by then I have reapplied it, and you would've kept the increased damage(per stack!)  and steamroll away.
  • MinionMinion Posts: 162Member ✭✭✭
    Illidaen said:
    Kerek said:
    Definitely an upgrade. Multistrike -> Freeze -> Swarm -> Swarm is my current combo, and it's noticeably more damage now that freeze affects multistrike.
    Or sometimes what I do is Delayed multistrike>freeze(x3)>swarm>swarm>swarm

    The goal you want is to make sure they don't cure freeze in its entirety. I do 3 because, riiiight before the 3rd freeze command, they heal a stack of frost, and by then I have reapplied it, and you would've kept the increased damage(per stack!)  and steamroll away.
    I have it set up to drop pointzero > frenzy > multristrike > freeze > freeze > swarm to dead. I don't delay. Not sure I see the point. I get freeze in once before the first multistrike lands so it gives the frenzy and freeze bonus to the damage. Two stacks of freeze is usually enough to finish. I've futzed around with some of the affs but it seems less efficient.
  • IllidaenIllidaen Posts: 39Member
    edited December 2018
    I use delay for the burst of dps spike as multistrike passive benefit as well from the increased damage from pointzero and frozen stacks.  Which that hits as you actively swarm spam. Its optional, but it works for me. Which is my personal point of choice to get 3 freeze stacks. Doing it the way yo're doing it gives me the impression that you might possibly be killing something comfortably that's not too tanky or you're probably got the stats/level in the right place to do it that way. I can't say for sure though.
    Minion
  • IllidaenIllidaen Posts: 39Member
    edited December 2018
    Wuff said:
    What exactly capitalises off of one stack of Frost? ... Illidaen said:
    Wuff said:
    Do we have a viable way of freezing rooms? 

    In a sense, yes, but 99% ineffective. Roomdrain is what gives -everyone- but you, a stack of frozen and that's it AND it has a 3 minute CD. This only has a possible potential effect for pvp and it sounds like you have to time the room drain with another room effect that capitalizes off the 1 stack of frost(...)
    swarm/multistrike/drains boosts their damage off frost stacks. The more stacks the higher the damage increase. Find a mob and test it out as I did.
  • vekronvekron Posts: 2Member

    After testing things a little these are my opinions where problems are.

    Not being able to see when limbdrain breaks the leg makes it really hit and miss to use.

    Confound is just frustrating to use. A lot of the better things are gated behind three mind afflictions and when this can overlap it still gives system damage which is fine but it locks you into just spam confound until system afflictions build, at which point you are at the point when you don't need to use sluggish and such anyway. Eyestrike is much more fun to use because it pushes towards echoing and gives you some decisions to make, and also punishes you if you use it when they have all the afflictions already. I feel this strikes the best middle ground from what I've seen so far.

    My request would probably be for a second mind affliction attack, with a reduced pool but that didn't overlap if confound has to. Just let us be a bit more precise basically: the current setup doesn't really permit much strategy where confound is concerned. You're just rolling the dice on whether your three seconds of bal are going to push towards distract/sluggish, and you won't actually know if they did or not without investing another 1s for analyze. Just feels somewhat unsatisfying with all the affliction count gates present.

    Seconding the opinion that the sensory afflictions aren't very impactful.

    I think the Sunderer could use an active ability that you'd want to use in one v one sometimes. At the moment I'd never see myself binding this in one v one pk because I can always swap/breakdown at the end of a fight if necessary and nothing else is worth being locked out of all sanity regen. I might be proved wrong and the 5% turns out to be very significant, but given the way the class will typically play I'm sceptical. Maybe its ok this being mostly used for damage strategies in some teams, but I think honestly you'd still bind the Conqueror for that in many cases.

  • SlanderSlander Posts: 155Member ✭✭✭
    25% damage boost on the first 5 hits of a fight with no cooldown is significant.
    vekronDariosMinion
  • MatlkaelMatlkael Posts: 305Member ✭✭✭
    The cooldown is the santiy cost, which is very limiting.
    itsa Mereas!
  • SozaSoza Posts: 71Member ✭✭
    edited January 2
    vekron said:
    I think that while the whole chance and risk vs reward is really cool for the class or any class in general. The rewards of our class don't quite weigh up to the risk currently.

    Atm we have to risk every time we try to apply a mental aff, we risk every time we go to swap those afflictions for others with a chance of them being swapped to a diff affliction that is already there effectively making you heal them but do a little mind damage. Then we go into the actual "Risk vs reward" tree of Oblivion where everything that is actually riskyseems to be gated behind such an absurd cooldown or able to be interrupted.

    If you want the risk and reward that's fine i'm cool with it but actually give some reward rather than it being risk: nothing happens(Or even we cure them) | reward: Whats supposed to happen but it seems to be only as strong as what each other class has with no risk.

    closing note, I don't think we need buffs. I think we need to have a functional kit that doesn't rely on chance.
    MinionWuff
  • MinionMinion Posts: 162Member ✭✭✭
    If you compare nano to scoundrel, which works on a quicker balance AND has control over aff selection, we really don't particularly shine. 

    I think confound might be better if it applied two random affs. If you want to keep the RNG to the skill, maybe have an option for a single controllable aff or two random affs with no smart afflicting.
  • SozaSoza Posts: 71Member ✭✭
    Minion said:
    I don't really think we need buffs, just more controllable variables, Id even go as far to say if the chance factor is taken out, to lower some of our mind damage just a smidgen.
    Minion
  • MinionMinion Posts: 162Member ✭✭✭
    Soza said:
    Minion said:
    I don't really think we need buffs, just more controllable variables, Id even go as far to say if the chance factor is taken out, to lower some of our mind damage just a smidgen.
    With RNG that isnt smart afflicting, using one balance to maybe get one aff but also maybe cure an aff for them is not a good return on investment. Particularly when other classes do not have to deal with RNG and the possibility of straight up curing your target. Two affs RNG or one controllable isn't a buff necessarily, simply actually making it worth a balance to use. I would look at upping the resource cost or lowering mind sys damage if neccessary, yes.

  • MinionMinion Posts: 162Member ✭✭✭
    Like I said, if neccessary. I am not convinced that my suggestion of two RNG affs or one controllable requires a nerf to implement.
  • vekronvekron Posts: 2Member


    Personally I like how oblivion is set up, even if some things probably need tweaks. Its good risk vs reward dynamics and for the most part I think the abilities it offers are exceptionally good. The sunderer is my only major gripe, though I think the Architect is a little lackluster. Overall though, its probably my favourite skill out of any of the classes mechanically and thematically.

    Nanotech is uncontrollable risk/potential reward, which is frustrating. Losing to dice rolls is fine, but not when you're the only one having to roll at the table. More control would be great.

    Minion
  • PoetPoet Posts: 64Member ✭✭
    I love the class. I like the risk v reward. I like that I can run out of nanites and that I can drive myself insane.  It's just that the rewards for walking that line right now seem a little poor.  

    I have at times used: Pointzero, Channel Traveller, Speedup, Channel Conqueror, Frenzy and then Multistrike, Freeze, Swarm... With that much wind up we should be able to punch above our level, but really no. It's usually just not worth it unless you were really close to being able to kill whatever without having to do all that.

    And, if Repair is going to be a 10% resource drain, why does it have a cooldown?  It's already self-limiting if you are doing much of anything else.
    [Cassandra]: Poet will be unsurprised to learn that she has unread news.
    MinionSlanderRonin
  • GarrynGarryn Posts: 57Administrator Starmourn staff
    edited January 2
    Hrrm, mindswap is supposed to only give afflictions that the target doesn't already have, is that not working correctly?

    [update] Apparently not - fixed now!
    RoninAlbion
  • MatlkaelMatlkael Posts: 305Member ✭✭✭
    IIRC, mindswap can cure off the affliction it just gave, so it's essentially just a small mental subsys attack.
    itsa Mereas!
  • MatlkaelMatlkael Posts: 305Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2
    (oops double post)
    itsa Mereas!
  • TyeTye Posts: 127Member ✭✭✭

    -- Updates - #45 --------------------------------------------------------------

    Date:     01/02/2019 at 22:06

    Author:   Garryn, the Reshaper

    Subject:  Mindswap.


    Mindswap (Nanotech) should be giving the correct afflictions now, instead of replacing existing ones

    .

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Eukelade gives you a peck on the cheek.
  • MatlkaelMatlkael Posts: 305Member ✭✭✭
    Not quite sure how Oblivion Cure is supposed to work. Here is me testing it out: https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/JjtsorAP

    It doesn't appear to have done anything.
    itsa Mereas!
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