I guess one of the good things about cosmpiercers only giving out a few thousand marks is that losing them doesn't actually make that big of a dent in a faction's overall strength. It's, what, 6000 marks at maximum? That's 90k marks per in-game year. I can bash* up that much in 2 RL days; 1 if I'm really trying.
In other words, losing a cosmpiercer is mostly psychological, and it's possible to spin it in a positive way in-game. Propoganda it into something that still encourages your faction.
One thing I will not feel bad about about, though, is our players being engaged with objectives. Participation is a positive thing. And while Song does have a large part of the active combatants right now, things always change. Jumping factions is easy here. New recruits are always possible. Off the top of my head, for example, Vianou is a convert and Steve and Keanu are fresh recruits. All three have increased Song's capability by a notable margin.
There will be ups and downs for every faction. Just a few months ago, Scatterhome was King, then it was Song, then Celestine, then Song now again. It can be frustrating when your org is on the downswing, but in general, things do improve.
* bashing being a catch-all term for traditional bashing, questing, and incursioning
Mereas Eyrlock "They're excited, but poor." - Ilyos (August 2019)
Ascendancy is always the King! That is just preposterous Song propaganda to claim otherwise!
To be honest there will be always setbacks since it is part of the deal. Though good PvPers departing from the game is somewhat demoralizing.
While economy has improved notably, I will disagree about cosmpiercers. But the root issue is closely linked with the game population as well. Hence guards have been the better version. Besides, hacking rush is not that fun to be honest. It simply does not feel like a military capture and I think RP considerations are an important part of the deal as well. Current hacking rush type capture would be better for capturing a corporate complex or a ground/planetary objective.
For previous version the main criticism was that things were gated by PvE. While it was a combination of PvE(ship and ground), PvP(ship and ground) and hacking. So I still do not understand why it became highly gated by hacking now and PvE(ground) removed. It is the same issue. Maybe some people just do not want hacking and will developers remove hacking and then ship PvP and ship PvE(generators) parts too? Because some people do not enjoy them too?
There is no doubt developers do a stellar job and put their best efforts. And it will never be possible to make all sides happy. But regarding cosmpiercers I think their thematic allure has been lost to a degree.
look counter hacking AKA defense just is not worth it right now. you need to really outnumber your opponents to do it in any reasonable time frame. by which i mean in order to counter hack fast enough to actually defend you need to do so really fast. but hacking is really easy to stop so unless you can either permanently tie up the attackers or outright kill them fast defense is pointless.
the old system had its flaws but at least there was a point in showing up to try and defend.
I don't think the playerbase is capable of sustaining cosmpiercers as they presently stand in anything approaching an engaging way. It's a huge challenge to do from a design standpoint, honestly, given all the different factors that are being pulled together.
In my ideal world we wouldn't bother trying to pull them all together since I don't think that will work, at least not for a while longer. Instead I'd like to break cosmpiercers into two parts. Cosmpiercers and something else. Tosmpiercers, let's say. Adjust Cosmpiercers to be solely a PvE faction bonding and reward experience, and make Tosmpiercers the PvP side of thing.
Make a few cosmpiercers around each faction 'reserved' for that faction. They reset every once in a while when the Ishvana assert control over their belongings. The faction comes together to have pilots deliver combatants that cut down guards to free up the terminals for their hackers to control. Everyone's happy, they get some marks. Add in a ton of ambient messages and redesign some of the room descriptions to make the idea of the Ishvana as a much more present/real thing that the faction is trying to stamp down on and keep out of the sector.
I'd like Tosmpiercers to shift toward a by-agreement-on-both-sides type of affair. I can't think of a way to incorporate captaining into smaller-scale PvP given the vast difference in power depending on ship classes and the way that it totally gates off any subsequent parts of the contest if it isn't even, so just nix it entirely.
Take the remaining cosmpiercers and give the factions some way to voidgate or warp onto them. A faction can challenge ownership over a station with a number of participants according to its level or some other metric. So you can bring 2 people to a level 2, three people to a level 3, and so on. Depending on how you swing it, you can attach a dedicated 'hacker' slot if there are people who are eager to help via hacking but don't want to get in on the bloodshed side of things, maybe.
Encourage factions to fight over a Tosmpiercer that their rivals will be able to defend by having the rewards for ownership charge up according to the bloodshed/participation going on aboard the station while the contest is active. Psychic or kith energy or something fueling the installation's something receptacle. That way a larger/more active faction *can* grab undefendable spots, but it won't be as rewarding as winning one that they have to genuinely fight for. The rewards dwindle over time, and re-charge back up for the defenders too on a successful defense, so everyone has a motivation to participate on it if they want to. Maybe even have some of the pending rewards at the time of a defeat disbursed to the defending faction to help soften the blow of losing your 'piercer.
As far as the actual mechanics, maybe you could have people fight in waves to secure an opportunity for your hacker, or one of your combatants, whatever, an opportunity to have a go at hacking the terminal controlling the station in order to build up points to secure the station. Minimize the cost of dying. Maybe boost up lower-leveled people health/damage wise so they're more equivalent, or just leave it as a motivation for them to grind up to 75, whatever.
The broad strokes of the idea is to work up a system that allows for factions to engage with each other on even footing without unduly punishing smaller-population people while also trying not to cultivate an environment that fosters whining at a larger group for daring to try and do things together. There are some other obvious problems that would be introduced with this sort of a change, but it's an extremely rough shape and most problems could be filed away with a little work and I don't have any reason to do that since I'm not the one that'd be working on the code to implement it which would mandate the shape those solutions took.
Did someone really just call Rhindara a griefer? Rhindara who is the nicest person in the game, but still likes to participate?
The nicest person who never returns others' INRs. The nicest person who actively hunts down ships that aren't a threat and returns to steal their cargo (also applies if they get blown up by generators). The nicest person who, in private, told me that she's not bothered losing 50k worth of marks each time her ship blows up (probably because she can steal more from other players later), so I shouldn't either.
Earlier in this very long thread I suggested that we work out an unofficial agreement between players to not swipe each others' cargo after losing a ship. Rhindara opposed the idea, citing bad actors as a reason. That is true, because she is one of them.
I know I'm pointing fingers, but playing nice got me nowhere so I'm done with it. I also know you have no respect for me and consider me a skill-less scrub who needs to git gud for losing a 4v1 fight, but consider this: just because players in this game do something that is, at the moment, good for some of them, doesn't mean it's good for the game as a whole. PvP in particular has behaviors people perpetuate that are toxic and result in a discouraging atmosphere that drives other players from the game. I'm not talking taking cosmpiercers, I'm talking being a griefing bully who squashes others and makes them pay dearly for even bothering to step into contested territory.
This thread is full of people who don't see this as a problem - that's because most of you are not on the receiving end, being either the ones who do this (Song players) or have little to lose as they don't pilot/pilot only cargo-less interceptors (Nykara, Zhulkarn). If you want to talk to someone who actually received such treatment, look at Kitrana's posts. Look how happy they sound.
Or alternatively just double down on being Skinner because it doesn't currently apply to you so it's not a problem:
? We've literally lost piles and piles of cargo from failed attempts at taking/defending cosmpiercers. You, @Cubey, might not be the one taking cargo, but there are CA players who do so (and they do nothing wrong by doing so). It's spoils of war.
Why do you think we've been clamoring for changes regarding how ships get spat out of cosmpiercer docks and get almost auto-killed by generators, nullifying the towrequest mechanic?
You seem to have it in your head that Song gets admin favour, and I don't know why. Everything we've been doing, everyone else can do, too. Literally, the only mechanical difference between factions is in elections.
Mereas Eyrlock "They're excited, but poor." - Ilyos (August 2019)
Making another player lose ten bucks worth of ingame stuff is not "spoils of war". It's griefing coded into game mechanics. If I wanted that, I'd play EVE Online. But I don't, which is why not only did I not take peoples' cargo (mea culpa: I did once, to recoup losses CA people suffered when they had their cargo stolen earlier), I tried to push so others wouldn't either. But for the most part, my words fell on deaf ears.
Let go of the Song-related defensiveness. I am not attacking Song players right now. I'm saying the whole Starmourn player community is in need of some serious self-reflection.
Actually I rather prefer heavy corvette nowadays and sometimes it has cargo sometimes it does not depending on the occasion. But that was more due to spending some time on other ingame activities which made me lag on the captaincy part. Otherwise I would sport a battleship as well.
My chief losses more come from other departments which I am capable of bearing the brunt of the losses thankfully. Of course I will not disclose them in a detailed fashion here because that is more of an IC matter.
Perhaps I possess a hawkish stance towards spoils of wars and such only because that promotes economy and there are reimbursement policies in place regarding such catastrophical occurrences by factions. Player A loses X repairkits so it incentivizes player B to produce repairkits while it incentivizes player C to make regulations that promotes the actions of player A to continue such endeavours until the whole feedback becomes profitable for the faction on the whole. Of course population of the game has direct effect on this chain to work or not properly.
Returning INRs while OOCly it can be a nice gesture, ICly for example my character would not care and might even possess the logic that if someone possesses his INR they can learn a thing or two from it due to himself being an old Jin. Like many things, gestures of compassion and villainy are also a RP choice and they are not without consequences.
Also, I never tested out properly. Destroyed ships drop full cargo? Or a percentage of it? In my opinion that should be a percentage of it, if that is not the case.
If there were a percentage cargo loss on ship destruction, it would make incursions even more difficult to get into for newer pilots trying to grind up captaincy for bigger ships so they can carry their team to cosmpiercers, so I'm in firm opposition of that.
I'm also firmly opposed to ships getting ejected from cosmpiercers and destroyed, because it's a hard tax for failing a ground fight. I've always been opposed to this on here and on discord (when it was very first implemented, in fact, because it was essentially a band-aid fix for ships getting stuck in instances and being unusable for hours at a time).
However, if you bring a ship to defend or attack, it's to be expected that if other ships are there, they're going to attack you. They may even blow you up. Is it pretty punishing if you brought a lot of cargo? It sure is. Should people be demonized for engaging in PvP mechanics and reaping what little reward there is from it? I don't think so. It's not bullying to engage in conflict and to take what people essentially forfeit when they enter an PvP area or system knowing they can lose their cargo. It's playing the game. (And to clarify, I never made any comment about the gentleman's agreement not to take people's cargo when ships are blown up by generators after being ejected. The bad actor comment was made by someone else. I did not react to it.)
This pattern is getting really exhausting, though. This thread is meant to discuss the mechanics of the cosmpiercer system and suggest better versions of it. It's not for telling the admins that they're not listening to everyone equally, or that they're making knee-jerk reactions. It's not for telling one faction that they're griefing zerglings, or that the entire playerbase is problematic and unfair. It's certainly not for one person's crusade for justice against everyone they disagree with.
If you have legitimate suggestions for the systems in play, please keep commenting. If all you have to offer is more personal attacks, I'd really wish you'd make your own thread to do so. I'll even come updoot you.
That's a terrible idea. Do you realize how much work it takes to replace 40k marks' worth of supplies?
The system is too punitive the way it is now and that idea would only make it even more punitive. The comm market is already developing because players need supplies for incursions, not because of cosmpiercers. But players buy those supplies knowing that they will be used to make more money for them. That's a powerful encouraging effect which forms a positive feedback loop: you make money, you buy more supplies to make even more money, you buy even more supplies, etc. Everyone involved feels good.
What cosmpiercers have now is a negative feedback loop. It's built on reinforcing misery - you fucked up and lost your supplies, so now you have to suffer for it and work for X hours to earn those marks back, almost like a penance of sorts. This is not a good solution because it actively discourages players from participating unless they know they have a safe win. There's simply too much to lose.
PvP doesn't have to, and shouldn't be a "you lose, you get punished for it" kind of situation. Players don't need extra incentives to feel bad when they lose, losing already feels bad enough on its own, even if there are no consequences for it other than losing the cosmpiercer or what have you. If you stack up punishments atop of that, people won't grit their teeth and power through just to fuel your idealized vision of game economy. You know what they'll do? They'll simply stop caring about cosmpiercers.
However,
if you bring a ship to defend or attack, it's to be expected that if
other ships are there, they're going to attack you. They may even blow
you up. Is it pretty punishing if you brought a lot of cargo? It sure
is. Should people be demonized for engaging in PvP mechanics and reaping
what little reward there is from it? I don't think so. It's not
bullying to engage in conflict and to take what people essentially
forfeit when they enter an PvP area or system knowing they can lose
their cargo. It's playing the game. (And to clarify, I never made any
comment about the gentleman's agreement not to take people's cargo when
ships are blown up by generators after being ejected. The bad actor
comment was made by someone else. I did not react to it.
Oh please. Do you need a reminder of what happened? I didn't lose my ship because I was attacking or defending. I lost my ship because when the cosmpiercer was lost I decided to leave, not firing a single shot, just getting the hell out of there - but you and Yayeh immediately gave chase like bloodhounds.
Like, what was the point of that? Did you need an ego boost? Was it the "reward" from PvP mechanics? Do you consider stealing from other players to be rewarding, knowing well that your benefit comes at the expense of their misery?
And just so you know, yes I do consider taking supplies worth this much to be theft. 40k marks is at current prices over 25 credits. Go on, check the main page and see how much it costs to buy 25 credits from IRE. That's the amount of money you take from another player's wallet each time you scoop up their cargo and don't return it.
I only admit that someone else made the bad actor comment. My bad for saying that without checking.
You can't really complain about the losses at a Cosmpiercer when the content is entirely optional. Plus, just from reading this, you made a ton of mistakes. If you've got junk in your cargo and you go to a Cosmpiercer, you deserve to lose it. If you've got far too many supplies aboard, be prepared to lose it all, you need to learn to moderate how much you're carrying and store some on stations. It isn't stealing, you're a willing participant in a conflict and taking you out and taking your supplies means you're less likely to join the fight in the next one while you have to resupply. It is a simple battle tactic, nothing more.
The only thing I do agree on that sounds terrible, is ships getting undocked and destroyed once a Cosmpiercer battle ends.
You can't really complain about the losses at a Cosmpiercer when the content is entirely optional. Plus, just from reading this, you made a ton of mistakes. If you've got junk in your cargo and you go to a Cosmpiercer, you deserve to lose it. If you've got far too many supplies aboard, be prepared to lose it all, you need to learn to moderate how much you're carrying and store some on stations. It isn't stealing, you're a willing participant in a conflict and taking you out and taking your supplies means you're less likely to join the fight in the next one while you have to resupply. It is a simple battle tactic, nothing more.
Okay first off, I didn't say anything about junk. I said supplies and yes you do need that many supplies when you're flying a battleship. 100 repairkits, 60 batteries and 6+ astromechs is the minimum required if you foresee a fight. Otherwise you'll just run out mid battle. And that's already 25k marks.
Secondly, if you think cosmpiercer content is optional then you're clearly not aware of social pressure players push on others just to have them participate - whether they want to or not. Your character is in Scatterhome, right? The org has a stance of "fuck it, do what you want" but others are different. Even in CA I had to tell Zhulkarn to back off because he was pushing non-PvPers into participating in cosmpiercers against their will. Imagine how it looks like in Song with its RP being "we're all soldiers and we do everything we can for the faction".
And that's just pressure from people within your faction. On a game-wide level, if you're a known combatant or org leader, then there is enormous pressure to make your faction look strong by winning fights, and that currently means cosmpiercers. It's no secret that marks from controlling piercers might as well not be there. The real reward is the rep. Covering the whole cosmpiercer map in your faction colors makes it look powerful. And ff you don't control cosmpiercers, or if someone attacks and you're around but don't respond? You just end up looking weak and pathetic.
You can't really complain about the losses at a Cosmpiercer when the content is entirely optional. Plus, just from reading this, you made a ton of mistakes. If you've got junk in your cargo and you go to a Cosmpiercer, you deserve to lose it. If you've got far too many supplies aboard, be prepared to lose it all, you need to learn to moderate how much you're carrying and store some on stations. It isn't stealing, you're a willing participant in a conflict and taking you out and taking your supplies means you're less likely to join the fight in the next one while you have to resupply. It is a simple battle tactic, nothing more.
Okay first off, I didn't say anything about junk. I said supplies and yes you do need that many supplies when you're flying a battleship. 100 repairkits, 60 batteries and 6+ astromechs is the minimum required if you foresee a fight. Otherwise you'll just run out mid battle. And that's already 25k marks.
Secondly, if you think cosmpiercer content is optional then you're clearly not aware of social pressure players push on others just to have them participate - whether they want to or not. Your character is in Scatterhome, right? The org has a stance of "fuck it, do what you want" but others are different. Even in CA I had to tell Zhulkarn to back off because he was pushing non-PvPers into participating in cosmpiercers against their will. Imagine how it looks like in Song with its RP being "we're all soldiers and we do everything we can for the faction".
And that's just pressure from people within your faction. On a game-wide level, if you're a known combatant or org leader, then there is enormous pressure to make your faction look strong by winning fights, and that currently means cosmpiercers. It's no secret that marks from controlling piercers might as well not be there. The real reward is the rep. Covering the whole cosmpiercer map in your faction colors makes it look powerful. And ff you don't control cosmpiercers, or if someone attacks and you're around but don't respond? You just end up looking weak and pathetic.
I'll attest to this social pressure, i hate landing on cosmpiercers after being trained to play with a minimap to lose it like that. but we're outnumbered and there is quite a bit of pressure to get boots on the ground for defense or offense and so I show up despite the fact I LOATHE it, and the fact i am only a MIL 30 and not really a combatant.
@Cubey Hey there a moment. I never pushed people into participating in cosmpiercer against their will. Once I made a joke ICly to another player about lawyers and that was all about it. Anyone in CA can easily tell that I never forced anyone to do anything but rather always tried to make things as clean and painless as possible. You wish to join a cosmpiercer assault? You are rewarded, your losses are covered and pretty much it is optional. I never ever forced anyone or put social pressure when they said they are unavailable or busy or not interested. Even divisions of Inka Indomitable Industries are designed with that mentality. Everyone finds the place they fit and contribute to their capabilities.
If anyone feels like being pressured doing one activity or another then they should remember CA is a corporate-state where your contributions are rewarded and you can pretty much sit still and do not contribute. We will not put any pressure on you. You do things, you are rewarded, you do not do things, you are free to enjoy the rights as a citizen and do your own RP, PvE, PvP whatever you desire.
So please keep your inaccurate accusations to yourself. And drop that holier than thou attitude.
i will say what i said to you in game, in my experience noone ever says that and actually means it.
I do not know what kind of experiences you had with others in your gaming experience. But I mean it, truly.
Improvisers are the part of III that are not obligated to join any violent activity. You can kick back and just haul stuff around, do work as a light duty officer whenever you are able. Your character is enlisted as an Improviser in the Inka Indomitable Industries and like any other Improviser you are not obligated or pressured to do any CP content as non-PvPer. Hence the name: Improvisers.
If you are not a member of Inka Indomitable Industries, you can even forget about the existence of cosmpiercers altogether, no one will hold you from your arm and take there.
So, do I mean it what I say?
Yes I do. We have built the entire CA military system on voluntary participation fitting corporate theme.
Dude, joking about it is a form of social pressure. It conveys a message that not doing something is not okay (in this case, not participating in cosmpiercers) and thus you can make fun of it. Even if that's not what you intended, that's how it is received.
Sure if someone jokes about my character is too old and they should depose him, should I take it as a threat then? And then proceed to punish that person because they might mean that? Let us not be ridiculous.
Everyone including myself knows the joked character is uber-pacifist even in PvE. The person even told me that they got the joke despite your overreaction.
I think all due respect you are reaching for straws here.
Sorry but if the conversation goes like this (Z: Zhulkarn, X: other person):
Z: "Who wants to do Activity?"
X: "Not interested sorry"
Z: "One day I should find a way to make you do Activity against your will"
Then that doesn't sound like a joke. That sounds threatening and uncomfortable.
The difference between this and someone saying that Zhulkarn is old and they should depose him? The latter is a ridiculous claim because Zhulkarn is in position of power and that other person is not, so it's obvious their claim is just that, comedy. On the other hand, Zhulkarn ICly is well in position to force someone to do something against their will - as all former CA Primes have demonstrated. The only thing that stops him is his own sense of morality, but still: it's not a joke if you can actually do it.
Okay, could we take this somewhere else and keep this thread for feedback on the Cosmpiercer system and not about the vague philosophical differences between social pressure and individual/group e-peen anxiety?
i think the feedback has well and truely been given, we know who likes what or does not like what and why and have even had suggestions. but we already know guards are not comming back and so we're stuck with tweaks to the system as it is despite it being less engaging to at least one entire side of this conversation.
I blew up your ship when we were fighting over the generators. I didn't fire a single shot afterwards, when the battle was obviously lost - I undocked and just wanted to leave the cosmpiercer zone instead of picking fights with Song ships that were still around. Also do note that at no stage did I try to take your supplies.
To compare it with other IRE games - back when I used to play Lusternia (which was about a decade ago, maybe things have changed since then), when someone lost a village revolt they were given an opportunity to leave the village peacefully. Attacking them was considered poor form even though it was 100% rules-legal (because they were in enemy territory) - but everyone understood that they just lost a village and that is enough punishment, no need to rub it in by adding costly death-in-enemy-territory penalties atop of that.
Do you see what I am trying to say here?
EDIT: And yes I agree that this needs its own thread, but at the same time I'm not sure what to write that doesn't boil down to "I am angry at the game for its unfun design and at myself for failing to live up to my own expectations", so I'm done on the topic. The only reason why I posted anything else is to respond to Matlkael.
@Cubey To expand on your given example, then, you would have been given a free pass only after the entire cosmpiercer capture sequence was completed (just like how people in Lusternia were given a free pass to leave only after the village was lost). I played there, too; in fact, I played long enough to have experienced when the admins hardcoded it in a way that everyone in a village receives Grace (can't be attacked) once the revolt concludes. If you were a player right in the middle of a revolt and you decided to up and leave, you either had to teleport out or walk out. If you got caught by an enemy group and killed while attempting to exit, that was perfectly normal because the revolt itself had not yet concluded.
In any case, I only responded due to your own comment here:
Oh please. Do you need a reminder of what happened? I didn't lose my ship because I was attacking or defending. I lost my ship because when the cosmpiercer was lost I decided to leave, not firing a single shot, just getting the hell out of there - but you and Yayeh immediately gave chase like bloodhounds.
I just wanted to point out that you did, in fact, engage. We didn't come up out of nowhere and started shooting you. The first ship-on-ship shot was actually fired by you.
Mereas Eyrlock "They're excited, but poor." - Ilyos (August 2019)
Where did I say I didn't engage? I said I wasn't firing a single shot when I was leaving. My intent was at the time obvious - "I'm done fighting here, you win this one". I also sincerely doubt Song combatants would just let me go if I left after the capture was concluded, considering the views already expressed in this thread ("If you're in an open PK territory you should consider your cargo forfeit", etc).
Folks, please let's get back on track! While the debate between players might point out things about how you all need to relate to each other, both intra-faction and inter-faction, let's keep this thread about feedback/likes/dislikes/wants of the current Cosmpiercer incarnation.
I have been keeping up with this thread and have kept on making changes throughout the month but the population issue is not one that has an immediate solution. When we get more PvP games down the line with different kinds of interactivity, I hope more of you will find your niche in terms of what kind of PvP game you like. The Cosmpiercer system can't be a catch-all system. I will keep on bringing changes to you all, we're not done with it.
Back to cosmpiercers, I think it'd be nice that their layout be fixed instead of randomized. Having to use MAP every once in a while to remember the layout is a hassle.
Randomized layout brings absolutely nothing to the table, it's not as if a faction could set up pre-battle defenses before the cosmpiercer becomes vulnerable. By all means, keep the terminal locations randomized, just not the layout.
Comments
In other words, losing a cosmpiercer is mostly psychological, and it's possible to spin it in a positive way in-game. Propoganda it into something that still encourages your faction.
One thing I will not feel bad about about, though, is our players being engaged with objectives. Participation is a positive thing. And while Song does have a large part of the active combatants right now, things always change. Jumping factions is easy here. New recruits are always possible. Off the top of my head, for example, Vianou is a convert and Steve and Keanu are fresh recruits. All three have increased Song's capability by a notable margin.
There will be ups and downs for every faction. Just a few months ago, Scatterhome was King, then it was Song, then Celestine, then Song now again. It can be frustrating when your org is on the downswing, but in general, things do improve.
* bashing being a catch-all term for traditional bashing, questing, and incursioning
- Ilyos (August 2019)
To be honest there will be always setbacks since it is part of the deal. Though good PvPers departing from the game is somewhat demoralizing.
While economy has improved notably, I will disagree about cosmpiercers. But the root issue is closely linked with the game population as well. Hence guards have been the better version. Besides, hacking rush is not that fun to be honest. It simply does not feel like a military capture and I think RP considerations are an important part of the deal as well. Current hacking rush type capture would be better for capturing a corporate complex or a ground/planetary objective.
For previous version the main criticism was that things were gated by PvE. While it was a combination of PvE(ship and ground), PvP(ship and ground) and hacking. So I still do not understand why it became highly gated by hacking now and PvE(ground) removed. It is the same issue. Maybe some people just do not want hacking and will developers remove hacking and then ship PvP and ship PvE(generators) parts too? Because some people do not enjoy them too?
There is no doubt developers do a stellar job and put their best efforts. And it will never be possible to make all sides happy. But regarding cosmpiercers I think their thematic allure has been lost to a degree.
the old system had its flaws but at least there was a point in showing up to try and defend.
Why do you think we've been clamoring for changes regarding how ships get spat out of cosmpiercer docks and get almost auto-killed by generators, nullifying the towrequest mechanic?
You seem to have it in your head that Song gets admin favour, and I don't know why. Everything we've been doing, everyone else can do, too. Literally, the only mechanical difference between factions is in elections.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
My chief losses more come from other departments which I am capable of bearing the brunt of the losses thankfully. Of course I will not disclose them in a detailed fashion here because that is more of an IC matter.
Perhaps I possess a hawkish stance towards spoils of wars and such only because that promotes economy and there are reimbursement policies in place regarding such catastrophical occurrences by factions. Player A loses X repairkits so it incentivizes player B to produce repairkits while it incentivizes player C to make regulations that promotes the actions of player A to continue such endeavours until the whole feedback becomes profitable for the faction on the whole. Of course population of the game has direct effect on this chain to work or not properly.
Returning INRs while OOCly it can be a nice gesture, ICly for example my character would not care and might even possess the logic that if someone possesses his INR they can learn a thing or two from it due to himself being an old Jin. Like many things, gestures of compassion and villainy are also a RP choice and they are not without consequences.
Also, I never tested out properly. Destroyed ships drop full cargo? Or a percentage of it? In my opinion that should be a percentage of it, if that is not the case.
But some people might find it too punitive I guess.
I'm also firmly opposed to ships getting ejected from cosmpiercers and destroyed, because it's a hard tax for failing a ground fight. I've always been opposed to this on here and on discord (when it was very first implemented, in fact, because it was essentially a band-aid fix for ships getting stuck in instances and being unusable for hours at a time).
However, if you bring a ship to defend or attack, it's to be expected that if other ships are there, they're going to attack you. They may even blow you up. Is it pretty punishing if you brought a lot of cargo? It sure is. Should people be demonized for engaging in PvP mechanics and reaping what little reward there is from it? I don't think so. It's not bullying to engage in conflict and to take what people essentially forfeit when they enter an PvP area or system knowing they can lose their cargo. It's playing the game. (And to clarify, I never made any comment about the gentleman's agreement not to take people's cargo when ships are blown up by generators after being ejected. The bad actor comment was made by someone else. I did not react to it.)
This pattern is getting really exhausting, though. This thread is meant to discuss the mechanics of the cosmpiercer system and suggest better versions of it. It's not for telling the admins that they're not listening to everyone equally, or that they're making knee-jerk reactions. It's not for telling one faction that they're griefing zerglings, or that the entire playerbase is problematic and unfair. It's certainly not for one person's crusade for justice against everyone they disagree with.
If you have legitimate suggestions for the systems in play, please keep commenting. If all you have to offer is more personal attacks, I'd really wish you'd make your own thread to do so. I'll even come updoot you.
The only thing I do agree on that sounds terrible, is ships getting undocked and destroyed once a Cosmpiercer battle ends.
If anyone feels like being pressured doing one activity or another then they should remember CA is a corporate-state where your contributions are rewarded and you can pretty much sit still and do not contribute. We will not put any pressure on you. You do things, you are rewarded, you do not do things, you are free to enjoy the rights as a citizen and do your own RP, PvE, PvP whatever you desire.
So please keep your inaccurate accusations to yourself. And drop that holier than thou attitude.
Improvisers are the part of III that are not obligated to join any violent activity. You can kick back and just haul stuff around, do work as a light duty officer whenever you are able. Your character is enlisted as an Improviser in the Inka Indomitable Industries and like any other Improviser you are not obligated or pressured to do any CP content as non-PvPer. Hence the name: Improvisers.
If you are not a member of Inka Indomitable Industries, you can even forget about the existence of cosmpiercers altogether, no one will hold you from your arm and take there.
So, do I mean it what I say?
Yes I do. We have built the entire CA military system on voluntary participation fitting corporate theme.
Everyone including myself knows the joked character is uber-pacifist even in PvE. The person even told me that they got the joke despite your overreaction.
I think all due respect you are reaching for straws here.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
In any case, I only responded due to your own comment here: I just wanted to point out that you did, in fact, engage. We didn't come up out of nowhere and started shooting you. The first ship-on-ship shot was actually fired by you.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
Randomized layout brings absolutely nothing to the table, it's not as if a faction could set up pre-battle defenses before the cosmpiercer becomes vulnerable. By all means, keep the terminal locations randomized, just not the layout.