I'm really confused why any of this is an argument. It's pretty clear we don't need to tell each other how to play, just make an avenue where those who might need it can.
That's all it is. Nobody's wrong in this entire thread.
Fwiw I think this clan is a neat idea and could be a helpful tool to facilitate interactions. I'm not 100% sure how much I'd use it, because although I theoretically love longform RP, in practice I'm pretty lazy about it.
It doesn't have to be longform. That's just me. I'm planning to have a grid-style directory where you can put a checkmark in for what specific things you might or might not be after, paragraph RP being just one thing you can specify that you might or might not want.
Other categories will probably include stuff like emote combat, gore/torture/sex/romance (not because I want to encourage mature content, but rather because I recognise that many people would specifically rather avoid it and would benefit from being able to flat out put it out there that they're not down for that), etc.
I also think that just because you like something doesn't mean you have to like or want it all the time. I also don't always feel like RP. Sometimes I just wanna kill stuff. It's cool. Also some people bore me to be honest so saying I'm down for paragraph RP doesn't mean I'm down for paragraph RP with everyone! There are some people I'd rather keep things punchy with. :winky:
What I also foresee happening is that many people will choose not to mark themselves as interested in something like emote combat because they'd generally rather not or may not be too confident in their abilities; but seeing that one of their favourite RPers has listed this as being something they enjoy, they might get curious and reach out to that person to say, 'Hey you know I've actually never done this before but I see you've listed it as something you like and I'm kind of curious now! Can we give it a shot? Just this time. Don't judge me if I screw up, I'd just really love to try it.' And that's a magical thing, this realisation in a person that they can try something new and it will be OK, diversification of what you're used to and have previously always thought of as normal and default. It's how everyone starts out and how everyone learns. I want to encourage that kind of magic.
EDIT: Also, you don't have to make use of this clan all the time, if you join. I have no problem with people lurking. You can be AFK fishing 90% of the time, but 10% of the time you have that itch you kind of want to scratch and so you get curious and use it to ask if anyone's down for RP. Use it as a tool when you need it or want it and feel free to ignore it or turn the channel off when you don't. I won't even force you to list yourself in the directory if you'd rather not actively advertise yourself; you can just mooch.
"They are elect to whom beautiful things mean only Beauty." — Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before." — Margaret Atwood
Did you really just say 'I can blame my heritage but you can't because I'm brown and you're not' in the same post as saying you don't have any charisma?
I'm so stunned that I'm laughing IRL. Wew lad, looks like that's really true.
Did you really just say 'I can blame my heritage but you can't because I'm brown and you're not' in the same post as saying you don't have any charisma?
I'm so stunned that I'm laughing IRL. Wew lad, looks like that's really true.
It’s awesome, right. It’s like the irony gets lost somewhere.
Thanks for Hwite Knighting me from my own self-deprecating humour, fam; I'm my own worst enemy.
"They are elect to whom beautiful things mean only Beauty." — Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before." — Margaret Atwood
Well, since it seems like the post I wrote *still* hasn't been approved, I'll just put down this one while I continue to wait for that.
I think we should try to steer the conversation back to the clan itself and away from Kestrel's personal RP preferences.
I'll begin with: There is no wrong way to RP. There are only different ways.
We've all come to eat at the same restaurant, but we don't have to order the same meal. The beauty of IRE MUDs is that their feature-set is so diverse; it appeals to and attracts an equally diverse audience.
I get why people are becoming offended. I don't like elitism either. I believe that RP is for everyone, just like PvP. It doesn't matter if you can't string together two lines of code, you should be as welcome to jump in and have a go as anybody else.
Which is why I think that this clan has the potential to be either really good or really terrible for the RP community in Starmourn. I very much understand and appreciate that the intention is to encourage an active and healthy RP community. But I see so much potential for the clan to amount to nothing more than the Super Snob RP Club where we all sit on our mountainous thrones of vocabulary and look down our noses at the small-minded peasants. "He used 'could of' instead of 'could have'? emote's monocle splashes into their champagne."
Unfortunately, I don't really have any concrete ideas on how to avoid that scenario, but I'll keep thinking on it. What I *can* recommend is that Kestrel make an effort to exhaustively dissociate their personal RP tastes from the clan (which it sounds like they're already aware of/open to!). You've kind of made yourself the face of elitism with all this talk of spicy pulled jackfruit & coconut tzatziki flatbread crackers and equating food-snobs to RP-snobs. You know I got them big <3s for you but I'm just saying.
I want to offer my perspective on why some guidance through the clan could be useful. However, I agree with @Zil that it's a fine line between being great or being terrible.
IRE (Imperian specifically) was my introduction to role-playing in any context. I'd never even heard of D&D and I played video games in a very arcade-ey way. That's how I initially approached Imperian, and that's fine. My first character was called Archimonde and talked about people being Online a lot.
Over time I learned things that made the roleplay more enjoyable and rewarding for me, and made others have more fun playing with me too. I made my character less of a Mary Sue and gave them flaws. It was fun to explore the storytelling side of "I don't win all the time." I got better, slowly. There was no clan with suggestions on how to get in-character better, but I think I would have appreciated it if there had been, just as a learning experience or guidance.
It's easy to see how any such guidelines could look like "if you don't do all of these complicated things your RP sucks and you should feel bad." I want to avoid that. But if somebody is genuinely interested in learning the basics, it would be nice to have that resource available.
It's like learning about "say yes" when you're doing improv with a group for the first time.
It seems like it's the more the merrier. There's way too many strong personalities here for any "this is how we do it". It's just a checklist of "This is how I do it."
We can hash out these personality differences in character. I'm actually really excited, because I can already tell that's gonna be a lot of fun.
Edit - the only thing we need to do is find someone's checklist we have in common
If you're seeking a truly immersive experience, avoid as many layers of OOC communication as humanly possible.
There is an element that I think people aren't aware of, but is all too real; that sense of a character's image being marred by the image of their real-life player. Sul-chi the Jin might be a treacherous space pirate, known for her cruelty, but how scared of her will you really be, if every day you see her player post 2 year old deep fried memes and talk about how they just want to be everyone's friends?
You don't want to take away that special feeling of spontaneity, the excitement of having no idea what that other person is going to do. If things get edgy, violent, or hot and heavy, sure, ask if everything's good and establish a line of consent. But do this right. Live in your character's head and don't make plans. This is part of what makes roleplaying, in an environment like this, all the more fun. The best stories in Iron Realms are written in the moment.
Edit: I don't want this comment to be somehow construed as a condemnation of @Kestrel's proposed clan. Rather, I agree with @Cubey - I intend to squeeze every last drop of emergent RP I can out of this game. I don't believe that everyone needs to be as acerbic or insistent as I am in the True Hardcore Roleplaying Experience™, but all I'm saying is that if you haven't tried it, give it a shot. It's a drug.
I have a bit of a different take on it @Vex. Definitely not trying to put your point of view down--I personally haven't tried it and it seems to be super cool! But I am unlikely to try it, and here's why.
I imagine a lot of characters will dislike my character, let's call him Inigo. He's going to be a do-gooder in a galaxy of misfits and unsavory types. He'll make some good friends and lots of enemies, and I'm excited for that.
But I want to feel like me (the player, not the character) and the other players are working together for these cool stories. It's more fun to be a bad guy if there are good guys you can beat and be beaten by. So I want to know the spicy memers in control of Inigo's enemies. Our characters aren't on the same side, but I do feel like we as players are. I want to be friends with every player, not just with those controlling Inigo's friends.
If you're seeking a truly immersive experience, avoid as many layers of OOC communication as humanly possible.
There is an element that I think people aren't aware of, but is all too real; that sense of a character's image being marred by the image of their real-life player. Sul-chi the Jin might be a treacherous space pirate, known for her cruelty, but how scared of her will you really be, if every day you see her player post 2 year old deep fried memes and talk about how they just want to be everyone's friends?
You don't want to take away that special feeling of spontaneity, the excitement of having no idea what that other person is going to do. If things get edgy, violent, or hot and heavy, sure, ask if everything's good and establish a line of consent. But do this right. Live in your character's head and don't make plans. This is part of what makes roleplaying, in an environment like this, all the more fun. The best stories in Iron Realms are written in the moment.
You're absolutely correct and it's something that's been on my mind, particularly in reflection upon the clusterfuck that has been this thread.
I would like to pursue a balance, probably something that can be discussed elsewhere, and thinking that perhaps when the game launches I should terminate my participation on the forums.
I am acutely aware of some of my flaws and that perhaps I'm not doing the best job of selling this clan concept due to those flaws; and that's a big part of why I would rather not run it myself, or at least not alone, and build it up to a point where it can belong to the community and require very little direct oversight from me. For this reason and some of the feedback to this thread — I do listen, folks — I'm seeing that however well-meaning, the idea of policing any sort of RP ruleset, even ones that I think are as non controversial as the examples I offered, may be a bad idea and too open to interpretation for abuse. (My mind may still be changed on this but as I said in a prior post, we'll see how it goes.)
I do think keeping the clan chat line clear from OOC social chatter would be vital to the success of any OOC clan that had the goal of promoting immersion rather than detracting from it. And this is one clan rule I've already decided on and would be less open to feedback on — I don't want anyone using this clan to ask people how their day was OOCly, talk about what they had for breakfast, or fawn over what their kids did in school today. As a minimum I think in-game, clear separation between character and player are needed. The clan chat line should be used for things like asking if anyone's up for some RP at some tavern or other, or checking if anyone's interested in RPing some combat during the current raid that's going on, etc. I don't want there to be spam and I'm confident that other OOC clans will exist to cater to those purposes for those who are looking for something more of a social hub.
While ultimately you and I, @Vex, may come to different conclusions about the extent of our willingness to be involved OOC, I do want to say that I wholly empathise with your side of the fence and don't think there's a simple yes/no answer to whether or not talking about RP can be beneficial; it can be bad, it can be good. I'm hoping this clan ends up doing good.
For my part, I decided that sacrificing some degree of immersion, by participating in an OOC clan at all to begin with — something I generally avoid in IRE games — would be worth it if it meant greater ease of finding RP partners I can click with.
I've had so many moments on so many RP games where I met and fell in love, so to speak, with a new and unexpected RP partner completely spontaneously, and that writer's crush feeling is something I've cherished. But I also know that for every time I've been amazingly lucky to find that perfect spark out in the proverbial wild, there have also been many other times where I started RPing with someone amazing for the first time and thought to myself, 'I can't believe we've both been playing this game for years and I've only just now discovered for the first time what a damn cool person you are. I can't believe I've been denied the pleasure of your company for so long before finally lucking out to run into you. I wish I'd known you existed sooner!'
I decided it may be worth losing some of the magic of spontaneity if it meant I could remove some of the guesswork, and be able to meet more of those amazing RPers who are so often hiding in little pockets of the world with just one or two other stable RP partners. It's been my experience that the best ones are often the hardest catch.
"They are elect to whom beautiful things mean only Beauty." — Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before." — Margaret Atwood
The one thing I've always admired about IREs is their capacity for roleplay. In Avalon, it was always sprinkled with OOC banter which made it difficult to get any abiding satisfaction from it. Fervid roleplayers (like @Kestrel) didn't stick around for long.
I suspect that regardless of each individual style of roleplay a player might have, they will all ultimately stay in character and provide venues for you to explore. I think a clan like this could benefit those who wish to take the guesswork out of it, sure, but for some, the guesswork is part of the beauty. It strikes similar to dating websites versus going out into the world and finding a partner on your own. The former works, but the latter is a hundred times more exhilarating.
When I'm out exploring the world and happen to cross another player in a bar, I may strike up a conversation with them and see where it leads. I might just make a new friend and form a lasting relationship, or maybe it proceeds in a different direction and leads to a bloody brawl. It really doesn't matter to me if this person is drinking because they have a foot fetish and their lover spurned them by keeping socks on. I'll still interact with them and have fun doing so.
I think an easier approach, instead of forming a clan, would be to write a book in-game with tips and tricks on how to best roleplay certain styles, taking into account the different races or classes. I'm sure there will be some sort of global galactic library to contribute to.
If that were done, I would be among the first to check out such a book, because I'm always eager to explore new methods of roleplay.
Mudlet:Ōtsutsuki Interface "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order."
Would the book be written entirely IC? Cause it would need to be but also that book would be amazing. "When talking to W'hoorn in an enclosed, heavily populated space, note the nearest exit, for both of you may want it sooner rather than later."
Due to the very strong negative feedback on this thread, I've decided that this clan will not enforce any rules, at least not at the start, about what kinds of actions may be completely off-limits and/or bannable offenses as far as RP faux-pas are concerned. Meaning no one is going to be banned/shamed for metagaming, godmoding, or any other general RP no-nos. I do still have some very strong opinions about certain actions being categorically wrong within the realm of RP. An example of this is actually the first one I offered; forcefully subjecting anyone to rape RP, denying them a requested fade-to-black etc., is something I consider to be among the worst behaviours to occur in RP communities and not something I want to court or support on any level, which includes not wanting to give these kinds of people a platform within a clan designed to help them find other RP partners to be gross to. So while at this juncture I won't be spelling out any kind of rule that says 'don't do this or you're out', we'll see how it goes, as I said in a previous post. If this turns out to be a pervasive problem within the community, I'll be revisiting the idea that some guidelines may need to be drawn in the sand at some point.
"They are elect to whom beautiful things mean only Beauty." — Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before." — Margaret Atwood
Due to the very strong negative feedback on this thread, I've decided that this clan will not enforce any rules, at least not at the start, about what kinds of actions may be completely off-limits and/or bannable offenses as far as RP faux-pas are concerned. Meaning no one is going to be banned/shamed for metagaming, godmoding, or any other general RP no-nos. I do still have some very strong opinions about certain actions being categorically wrong within the realm of RP. An example of this is actually the first one I offered; forcefully subjecting anyone to rape RP, denying them a requested fade-to-black etc., is something I consider to be among the worst behaviours to occur in RP communities and not something I want to court or support on any level, which includes not wanting to give these kinds of people a platform within a clan designed to help them find other RP partners to be gross to. So while at this juncture I won't be spelling out any kind of rule that says 'don't do this or you're out', we'll see how it goes, as I said in a previous post. If this turns out to be a pervasive problem within the community, I'll be revisiting the idea that some guidelines may need to be drawn in the sand at some point.
Well rape RP already isn't ok in any IRE game. We do have many more individual boundaries though.
It's even harder to tell what we have in common, though. The more places it is easy to reach out, the better. That can be the reason for joining these games. If you don't want to do it, personally, all you have to do is opt out and leave it for those who would benefit.
As a popular Fry meme would say it, "Not sure if an asshole, or just roleplaying an asshole really well."
That's my cup of tea, but it's so much easier to initiate when both parties know you don't really hate each other. +1 to this clan.
(Although if two consenting individuals are doing it in private, it's not an issue. If it doesn't involve mutual consent, it's definitely not ok.)
I've encountered games where staff take a firm stance of not intervening with that so I'm really glad to hear this is not the case with IRE.
"They are elect to whom beautiful things mean only Beauty." — Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before." — Margaret Atwood
If anyone walked into a room with that happening to someone, I'd hope they wouldn't just ignore it and walk away. Would you do that IRL? *boggle*
I don't touch anyone's mudsex. If I walked in and I was concerned for a particular player I might send them a tell, but I'm not roleplaying that out. Nope.
So if anyone is not only interested in this clan but also interested/willing to take up a sort of co-leadership position and serve as a community leader where their role is to be really polite and friendly to people I so often lack the patience for, hmu and it's yours.
I was pretty serious about this being a community project and I tend to be very lax in general any time I end up in any kind of position of power, particularly when it comes to delegation and letting other people run the show. I just like making stuff and then running away to let other people deal with the details. So to be honest I see this clan being run as a bit of a kibbutz in which more or less anyone who's been around for a minimum of 5 minutes has editing permissions to be able to write some guides and resources and news posts and stuff.
I am acutely aware of some of my flaws and that perhaps I'm not doing the best job of selling this clan concept due to those flaws; and that's a big part of why I would rather not run it myself, or at least not alone, and build it up to a point where it can belong to the community and require very little direct oversight from me. For this reason and some of the feedback to this thread — I do listen, folks — I'm seeing that however well-meaning, the idea of policing any sort of RP ruleset, even ones that I think are as non controversial as the examples I offered, may be a bad idea and too open to interpretation for abuse. (My mind may still be changed on this but as I said in a prior post, we'll see how it goes.)
This is one of the biggest flaws I see with the whole thing.
Why does roleplay need policing?
Why does a roleplay community need a community leader?
You start off with this giant disclaimer about how RPer preferences are subjective, but a couple posts later you type the following gem:
If you don't want to join, you don't have to join.
Anyone who wants to join can join. There is no bar for entry other than having an interest in above average roleplay as defined by you and anyone who agrees with you. Advertise what you're looking for. Read/write guides for roleplay in much the same way that same way that anyone passionate about their hobby, be it golf, writing, cooking, fashion, DIY or decorating would. Or don't.
It's both small-minded and thick-skulled to assume that merely because you find no value in something, others won't. Why do you even care so much? Seriously? It's clear that you're not this thread's target audience. Why can't you just let people have fun the way they wanna have fun? Why be an arsehole? Go bury your head with the rest of your opinions.
The uproar on this thread is seriously something to behold. I feel like I just advertised a running club at the gym and am now being accused of ageism and fat-shaming by people with knee/fitness issues because not everyone can or wants to run. What are you all being so defensive about?
If this clan holds no interest to you, no one is forcing you to join. Bye.
"They are elect to whom beautiful things mean only Beauty." — Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before." — Margaret Atwood
If anyone walked into a room with that happening to someone, I'd hope they wouldn't just ignore it and walk away. Would you do that IRL? *boggle*
I don't touch anyone's mudsex. If I walked in and I was concerned for a particular player I might send them a tell, but I'm not roleplaying that out. Nope.
I've been asked by a god to do it in a godrealm, because the admin couldn't handle it XD
If anyone walked into a room with that happening to someone, I'd hope they wouldn't just ignore it and walk away. Would you do that IRL? *boggle*
I don't touch anyone's mudsex. If I walked in and I was concerned for a particular player I might send them a tell, but I'm not roleplaying that out. Nope.
I've been asked by a god to do it in a godrealm, because the admin couldn't handle it XD
Comments
That's all it is. Nobody's wrong in this entire thread.
Other categories will probably include stuff like emote combat, gore/torture/sex/romance (not because I want to encourage mature content, but rather because I recognise that many people would specifically rather avoid it and would benefit from being able to flat out put it out there that they're not down for that), etc.
I also think that just because you like something doesn't mean you have to like or want it all the time. I also don't always feel like RP. Sometimes I just wanna kill stuff. It's cool. Also some people bore me to be honest so saying I'm down for paragraph RP doesn't mean I'm down for paragraph RP with everyone! There are some people I'd rather keep things punchy with. :winky:
What I also foresee happening is that many people will choose not to mark themselves as interested in something like emote combat because they'd generally rather not or may not be too confident in their abilities; but seeing that one of their favourite RPers has listed this as being something they enjoy, they might get curious and reach out to that person to say, 'Hey you know I've actually never done this before but I see you've listed it as something you like and I'm kind of curious now! Can we give it a shot? Just this time. Don't judge me if I screw up, I'd just really love to try it.'
EDIT: Also, you don't have to make use of this clan all the time, if you join. I have no problem with people lurking. You can be AFK fishing 90% of the time, but 10% of the time you have that itch you kind of want to scratch and so you get curious and use it to ask if anyone's down for RP. Use it as a tool when you need it or want it and feel free to ignore it or turn the channel off when you don't. I won't even force you to list yourself in the directory if you'd rather not actively advertise yourself; you can just mooch.
— Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before."
— Margaret Atwood
I'm so stunned that I'm laughing IRL. Wew lad, looks like that's really true.
— Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before."
— Margaret Atwood
I think we should try to steer the conversation back to the clan itself and away from Kestrel's personal RP preferences.
I'll begin with: There is no wrong way to RP. There are only different ways.
We've all come to eat at the same restaurant, but we don't have to order the same meal. The beauty of IRE MUDs is that their feature-set is so diverse; it appeals to and attracts an equally diverse audience.
I get why people are becoming offended. I don't like elitism either. I believe that RP is for everyone, just like PvP. It doesn't matter if you can't string together two lines of code, you should be as welcome to jump in and have a go as anybody else.
Which is why I think that this clan has the potential to be either really good or really terrible for the RP community in Starmourn. I very much understand and appreciate that the intention is to encourage an active and healthy RP community. But I see so much potential for the clan to amount to nothing more than the Super Snob RP Club where we all sit on our mountainous thrones of vocabulary and look down our noses at the small-minded peasants. "He used 'could of' instead of 'could have'? emote's monocle splashes into their champagne."
Unfortunately, I don't really have any concrete ideas on how to avoid that scenario, but I'll keep thinking on it. What I *can* recommend is that Kestrel make an effort to exhaustively dissociate their personal RP tastes from the clan (which it sounds like they're already aware of/open to!). You've kind of made yourself the face of elitism with all this talk of spicy pulled jackfruit & coconut tzatziki flatbread crackers and equating food-snobs to RP-snobs. You know I got them big <3s for you but I'm just saying.
IRE (Imperian specifically) was my introduction to role-playing in any context. I'd never even heard of D&D and I played video games in a very arcade-ey way. That's how I initially approached Imperian, and that's fine. My first character was called Archimonde and talked about people being Online a lot.
Over time I learned things that made the roleplay more enjoyable and rewarding for me, and made others have more fun playing with me too. I made my character less of a Mary Sue and gave them flaws. It was fun to explore the storytelling side of "I don't win all the time." I got better, slowly. There was no clan with suggestions on how to get in-character better, but I think I would have appreciated it if there had been, just as a learning experience or guidance.
It's easy to see how any such guidelines could look like "if you don't do all of these complicated things your RP sucks and you should feel bad." I want to avoid that. But if somebody is genuinely interested in learning the basics, it would be nice to have that resource available.
It's like learning about "say yes" when you're doing improv with a group for the first time.
We can hash out these personality differences in character. I'm actually really excited, because I can already tell that's gonna be a lot of fun.
Edit - the only thing we need to do is find someone's checklist we have in common
There is an element that I think people aren't aware of, but is all too real; that sense of a character's image being marred by the image of their real-life player. Sul-chi the Jin might be a treacherous space pirate, known for her cruelty, but how scared of her will you really be, if every day you see her player post 2 year old deep fried memes and talk about how they just want to be everyone's friends?
You don't want to take away that special feeling of spontaneity, the excitement of having no idea what that other person is going to do. If things get edgy, violent, or hot and heavy, sure, ask if everything's good and establish a line of consent. But do this right. Live in your character's head and don't make plans. This is part of what makes roleplaying, in an environment like this, all the more fun. The best stories in Iron Realms are written in the moment.
Edit: I don't want this comment to be somehow construed as a condemnation of @Kestrel's proposed clan. Rather, I agree with @Cubey - I intend to squeeze every last drop of emergent RP I can out of this game. I don't believe that everyone needs to be as acerbic or insistent as I am in the True Hardcore Roleplaying Experience™, but all I'm saying is that if you haven't tried it, give it a shot. It's a drug.
I imagine a lot of characters will dislike my character, let's call him Inigo. He's going to be a do-gooder in a galaxy of misfits and unsavory types. He'll make some good friends and lots of enemies, and I'm excited for that.
But I want to feel like me (the player, not the character) and the other players are working together for these cool stories. It's more fun to be a bad guy if there are good guys you can beat and be beaten by. So I want to know the spicy memers in control of Inigo's enemies. Our characters aren't on the same side, but I do feel like we as players are. I want to be friends with every player, not just with those controlling Inigo's friends.
I would like to pursue a balance, probably something that can be discussed elsewhere, and thinking that perhaps when the game launches I should terminate my participation on the forums.
I am acutely aware of some of my flaws and that perhaps I'm not doing the best job of selling this clan concept due to those flaws; and that's a big part of why I would rather not run it myself, or at least not alone, and build it up to a point where it can belong to the community and require very little direct oversight from me. For this reason and some of the feedback to this thread — I do listen, folks — I'm seeing that however well-meaning, the idea of policing any sort of RP ruleset, even ones that I think are as non controversial as the examples I offered, may be a bad idea and too open to interpretation for abuse. (My mind may still be changed on this but as I said in a prior post, we'll see how it goes.)
I do think keeping the clan chat line clear from OOC social chatter would be vital to the success of any OOC clan that had the goal of promoting immersion rather than detracting from it. And this is one clan rule I've already decided on and would be less open to feedback on — I don't want anyone using this clan to ask people how their day was OOCly, talk about what they had for breakfast, or fawn over what their kids did in school today. As a minimum I think in-game, clear separation between character and player are needed. The clan chat line should be used for things like asking if anyone's up for some RP at some tavern or other, or checking if anyone's interested in RPing some combat during the current raid that's going on, etc. I don't want there to be spam and I'm confident that other OOC clans will exist to cater to those purposes for those who are looking for something more of a social hub.
While ultimately you and I, @Vex, may come to different conclusions about the extent of our willingness to be involved OOC, I do want to say that I wholly empathise with your side of the fence and don't think there's a simple yes/no answer to whether or not talking about RP can be beneficial; it can be bad, it can be good. I'm hoping this clan ends up doing good.
For my part, I decided that sacrificing some degree of immersion, by participating in an OOC clan at all to begin with — something I generally avoid in IRE games — would be worth it if it meant greater ease of finding RP partners I can click with.
I've had so many moments on so many RP games where I met and fell in love, so to speak, with a new and unexpected RP partner completely spontaneously, and that writer's crush feeling is something I've cherished. But I also know that for every time I've been amazingly lucky to find that perfect spark out in the proverbial wild, there have also been many other times where I started RPing with someone amazing for the first time and thought to myself, 'I can't believe we've both been playing this game for years and I've only just now discovered for the first time what a damn cool person you are. I can't believe I've been denied the pleasure of your company for so long before finally lucking out to run into you. I wish I'd known you existed sooner!'
I decided it may be worth losing some of the magic of spontaneity if it meant I could remove some of the guesswork, and be able to meet more of those amazing RPers who are so often hiding in little pockets of the world with just one or two other stable RP partners. It's been my experience that the best ones are often the hardest catch.
— Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before."
— Margaret Atwood
"In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order."
Due to the very strong negative feedback on this thread, I've decided that this clan will not enforce any rules, at least not at the start, about what kinds of actions may be completely off-limits and/or bannable offenses as far as RP faux-pas are concerned. Meaning no one is going to be banned/shamed for metagaming, godmoding, or any other general RP no-nos.
I do still have some very strong opinions about certain actions being categorically wrong within the realm of RP. An example of this is actually the first one I offered; forcefully subjecting anyone to rape RP, denying them a requested fade-to-black etc., is something I consider to be among the worst behaviours to occur in RP communities and not something I want to court or support on any level, which includes not wanting to give these kinds of people a platform within a clan designed to help them find other RP partners to be gross to.
So while at this juncture I won't be spelling out any kind of rule that says 'don't do this or you're out', we'll see how it goes, as I said in a previous post. If this turns out to be a pervasive problem within the community, I'll be revisiting the idea that some guidelines may need to be drawn in the sand at some point.
— Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before."
— Margaret Atwood
It's even harder to tell what we have in common, though. The more places it is easy to reach out, the better. That can be the reason for joining these games. If you don't want to do it, personally, all you have to do is opt out and leave it for those who would benefit.
As a popular Fry meme would say it, "Not sure if an asshole, or just roleplaying an asshole really well."
That's my cup of tea, but it's so much easier to initiate when both parties know you don't really hate each other. +1 to this clan.
(Although if two consenting individuals are doing it in private, it's not an issue. If it doesn't involve mutual consent, it's definitely not ok.)
— Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before."
— Margaret Atwood
"In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order."
Why does roleplay need policing?
Why does a roleplay community need a community leader?
You start off with this giant disclaimer about how RPer preferences are subjective, but a couple posts later you type the following gem:
Yikes.
You follow it up with a metaphor comparing food with roleplay and setting up Cubey's roleplay as a barely edible frozen microwave dinner. O.o
There's honestly only three outcomes from setting up a roleplaying club like this:
- If you don't want to join, you don't have to join.
- Anyone who wants to join can join. There is no bar for entry other than having an interest in above average roleplay as defined by you and anyone who agrees with you. Advertise what you're looking for. Read/write guides for roleplay in much the same way that same way that anyone passionate about their hobby, be it golf, writing, cooking, fashion, DIY or decorating would. Or don't.
- It's both small-minded and thick-skulled to assume that merely because you find no value in something, others won't. Why do you even care so much? Seriously? It's clear that you're not this thread's target audience. Why can't you just let people have fun the way they wanna have fun? Why be an arsehole? Go bury your head with the rest of your opinions.
The uproar on this thread is seriously something to behold. I feel like I just advertised a running club at the gym and am now being accused of ageism and fat-shaming by people with knee/fitness issues because not everyone can or wants to run. What are you all being so defensive about?If this clan holds no interest to you, no one is forcing you to join. Bye.
— Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before."
— Margaret Atwood
"No you aren't."
"What you do isn't even RP."
"Yes it is."
"You're like boxed wine to my fine aged wine."
"Now you're just being insulting."
"Oh, don't like it, then just leave!"
"Yep, think I'll do just that."
Mods, shut this sucker down, it isn't going anywhere positive.