RP 'Rules' & Etiquette

Kestrel

Hello!

Disclaimer: I'm not staff and have no intention of acting in any kind of staff-like capacity.

This thread is inspired by Rules and Suggestions (According to Groot) and some of the discussion over in Roleplay & You.

I've stated before that I'm interested in making a pro-RP OOC clan, open and welcoming to everyone, to function as a kind of matchmaking service for those interested in specific kinds of RP. I believe that fostering a bountiful RP and storytelling environment as a communal project would benefit people like me who are interested in this as their primary reason for playing Starmourn, as well as helping and encouraging anyone who hasn't previously been invested in RP to dabble and explore new ways of writing their character.

One of the things I've noticed over in Roleplay & You, and via discussions on the Unofficial Starmourn Discord, is that people have very strong opinions about paragraph RP that go both ways. Some (like me) would consider it essential to their enjoyment of RP, while others consider it detrimental or completely irrelevant to the topic of enjoyable RP.

This shifted my plans from creating a one-size-fits-all clan that just promotes 'RP' — an overly general and perhaps even arbitrary term — to one that serves to let people advertise specifically what kind of RP they're after. For example the clan could have a directory of RPers listed under various headers of what they do and don't go for; e.g., gore, paragraph RP, sexual themes, romance, politics, antagonism, character rivalry, etc. So if everyone marks a y/n for each preference (I haven't yet decided on a suitable list of checkmarks, so suggestions are welcome), it would be easy for anyone interested in violent paragraph RP to quickly find others who feel the same way, and easy for anyone averse to graphic content who prefers punchy one-liners to moderate their experience as desired.

It's obvious that some aspects of RPer preferences are highly subjective, like paragraph RP, and that it wouldn't be fair to define RP on subjective grounds or exclude people who have different ideas of what RP means from being involved.

However, are some aspects of what RP is/isn't non-subjective? Are there any grounds that should reasonably exclude someone who would be a detriment to RPer communities, or at least should some lines in the sand be drawn as a warning not to overstep?

Some examples of what might constitute non-subjective RP rules could be (YMMV):

• Nonconsensual attempts to force participation in mature content, particularly with the malicious intent of causing an explicitly uninterested party some emotional discomfort. (E.g., nonconsensual rape RP.)
• Godmoding, i.e. asserting control over the actions and intentions of another player's character through your own emotes, particularly if this is a repeated offense after the other party has asked for it to stop.
• Metagaming; I consider this to be a pretty tricky rule because it's often very hard to prove, and I've seen the assumption of metagaming cause just as much harm as actual metagaming. I also think metagaming can be expanded into a very broad definition, with some people for example considering the very idea that you might decide to seek out another player for RP based on OOC knowledge that you both enjoy the same kind of RP to be metagaming in and of itself. However, for a more clear-cut example of metagaming being detrimental, we can focus on non-victimless crimes and call it something like 'Repeated attempts to harm another player's enjoyment of the game, or expose secrets about their character they're striving to keep in confidence, in order to benefit your own character through the employment of OOC means. E.g., information learned via an alt or explicitly OOC conversations which the victim did not intend to make available for IC use.'

In order to foster a healthy pro-RP OOC clan that creates a net positive for the maximum number of people invested in RP, I believe it may be worth considering the exclusion of some people who've been proven to be repeat offenders, based on accusations from multiple sources, to protect other members of the RP community who agree to follow some standard of behaviour. For example, if the clan has a rule against malicious metagaming, and three different people point the finger at someone they say has used OOC means to attack their character IC, they're out and will no longer be listed on this directory. 

So my question is:
  A ) Would you be interested in a RP matchmaking service of this type?
  B ) If A, what are some community standards you would like to see enforced for members of this clan?
  C ) Which of these community standards are subjective and which are not? For anything that can't or shouldn't be considered a rule, I'd nonetheless be interested in compiling a list of RP etiquette tips that shouldn't be considered as grounds for anyone to be excluded, but rather can be read as advice for good manners.

Incidentally if staff are reading this thread, I'd be interested in your input and whether you'd be willing to help moderate such a clan; so for example if someone says 'X is a metagamer', you could step in, examine the facts from an overhead perspective, and determine whether or not the accusation has merit.

annys

Option A.

Though I'm of a similar opinion regarding paragraph-style RP, I am not entirely convinced it can be codified into a single list. All of it is entirely subjective, and all transgressions of the rules can still be completely valid RP, especially to different people. Tips and advice are all well and good, but it's great the focus is more on finding people with similar interests.

Tips and advice can even be 100% unarguably valid today, but a rigid adherence to them as "rules" could potentially stifle the evolution of the RP community as a whole.

If it's about matchmaking, the focus should be on matchmaking. Just as you can find on e-dating matchmaking sites "tips" about how to actually find your romance, those rules we create (which work for us!) won't work for everyone. Nor should they! If we want a diverse environment, it takes all types.

The only real RP "rule" that lasts is respect the other player.

Cubey

I'm not interested in this kind of service. In my experience, there are two kinds of roleplay. The difference can be subtle and complicated at times but basically it boils down to:

1. Structured, OOCly-organized RP where you seek people out to play with, you together decide on what kind of scenes you want to roleplay and then play them out

2. A more emergent type of RP that occurs naturally as you play a character with a specific personality and traits and interact with the game

Guess you could call it acting and method acting. Neither is better than the other and I played both types of RP, but in Starmourn I have no interest in the former - I always play the second type in MMOs if I bother with roleplaying at all, and this game is no exception. So, good luck with your efforts but I won't be participating myself.

One thing I don't like in your rules is that accusations alone are enough to condemn someone guilty of RP-breaking activity, if these accusations come from multiple sources. This makes it easy for a clique to gang up on people they don't like with false accusations - there should be some kind of proof presented to give validity to their claims.

Amondrask

From what I'm aware of, staff in IRE games tend not to get involved in RP disputes, in regards to matters such as metagaming - The games are RP encouraged and it's been said they're never going to enforce it, so if they're not going to crack down on people being OOC relatively in the open, I doubt they'd tackle such a messy issue as metagaming. There's no real rules they're breaking, and it's a bit of a nightmare to moderate that particular matter anyway. 

Regarding the rest, though, I'm cautiously in favour of that sort of organisation. It can be disheartening trying to find people that gel well with your particularl roleplay style, so having a directory of sorts could ease that significantly. It may well even make it easier for roleplay to get going at all. 

However, I am wary of this evolving into, or at least being perceived as, roleplay police. It's difficult to set any real rules for how people RP, given the variation in what people like, and the fact that we're all just players. We don't have the authority to back any of this up, beyond peer pressure, and to be honest I'm not sure if we should attempt it. RP is optional and people should, ultimately, be able to do as they wish, particularly in a roleplay encouraged setting. Guidelines can't hurt, though, even if they can't and will not be enforced. 

Kestrel

@Cubey, regarding the choice between OOCly organised RP where you seek people out to play with vs. more emergent, organic types of RP:

I'd think of the difference as far more akin to improv theatre vs. a stage play, or even buying the #1 bestseller in a bookshop simply because it's a bestseller vs. perusing the section dedicated to your favourite genre. From my time as a drama geek I've always thought of myself as a method actress, and this holds true for RP too, which I consider to be a performance art and an exercise in creative writing. I don't think that self-selecting your source of RP is any less 'method' than winging it.

I've RPed in a very wide variety of settings: MUDs, MUSHes, RPIs, forum RP, IM/chat-group RP, text-based browser games, Google Docs, Storium, tabletop, spontaneous, non-spontaneous, prearranged, nonconsent rules, OOC-prohibited, etc. And I'm generally very happy to adapt to whatever standard the environment has set, because 'When in Rome'. My RP-style on a MUSH is a totally different multi-paragraph internal-dialogue animal compared to my quickfire show-don't-tell RP on a MUD. I enjoy both styles for different reasons, depending on the kind of mood I'm in.

For the most part though, I've been doing this for long enough to know what I like. It's a lot like socialising IRL; sometimes it can be fun to go to some kind of bar/club, chat up strangers and just see what happens, but other times I have something specific I'm after, some conversation I'm starved for, and it can be very frustrating to wade through a sea of mystery hoping to find that special someone I'll click with.

I'll talk to anyone IRL and I've had some life-changing conversations in the most unexpected places, like the back-seat of a taxi, but if for example I have a really fierce foot fetish*, it might be easier sometimes to just tab to Foot Fanciers' Anonymous and be guaranteed to find other like-minded people rather than risk being ridiculed (or simply bored) in everyday conversation with other people who most likely don't share my particular interests. This is not to say that I'm only interested in talking to other foot fetishists, and I can still enjoy normal everyday conversations with strangers at a bar and taxi drivers, but if I know what I want then what's wrong with supplementing my daily interactions with a quick-fix where I know what I'm getting and that I'm going to have fun with it?

In no scenario am I being any less authentic or character-driven as a RPer seeking people out whom I know can provide me with the kind of RP I enjoy (well-written paragraphs, conflict RP, tension, grit, mystery and deeply flawed, complex characters) compared to when I'm hitting the local RP hub and throwing caution to the wind to shake out the proverbial RP-tree and see what falls out. It can be soul-sucking for me to interact with 10 new people in a day among whom not one will even use the emote command to give their character some body language that wasn't prescripted for them. And sometimes when I send someone a tell asking if they'd be interested in emoting out a combat scene, saying 'whatever you want, I'm cool with whatever', offering them a choice doesn't really mean I don't have a preference — I'm hoping, praying they end up being one of those rare special people who say 'sure, I'm happy to emote it out rather than relying on mechanics'. But I can't place that expectation on the majority of IRE players; it wouldn't be fair to expect more than the default When in Rome.

Letting people advertise they want more than the default keeps people like me sane, and invested in playing a game where the default may not generally be enough to satisfy their appetites. It also offers curious people the opportunity to engage in something outside the default that they might not otherwise consider. Emoting combat in IRE MUDs, for example, isn't something that happens unless an interested party takes it upon themselves to suggest it, so many people playing IRE MUDs, no matter how spontaneous/organic/emergent their RP is, will never come across it. But if you happen to come across a directory where people interested in it are advertising it, you might think to yourself, 'Hmm! I've never thought about emoting combat before but it sounds like it might be fun. Next time I run into this character, maybe I'll try and initiate an emoted combat scene with them rather than just codedly attacking them.' They're now aware of an option they didn't know existed before, and as a result both they and the people who were already specifically looking to pursue that option now have a higher likelihood of getting something out of the game they previously wouldn't have had the right to expect.

I would furthermore caution you against confusing the means of pursuing RP with the content of that RP. If it makes sense for my character to attack someone, pausing to consult my knowledge of the player before I decide whether to type out an emote in which my character starts slowly advancing and brandishing their sword, vs. whether to immediately jump to the most effective combat skill in my arsenal, doesn't have anything to do with whether or not I'm being faithful to my character, or whether or not I'm going with the flow. I'm choosing the means of performing my character's actions, not whether or not to perform those actions at all. It's not about recasting the actors or editing the lines; it's about choosing the right costume, props, lighting and set design for them to deliver their performance in.

(*This is just an example, I don't really have a foot fetish; please don't DM me your feet kthx.)

Kestrel

Also, if there's enough pushback against the idea of having any kind of hard-and-fast rules in this clan, I will scrap that idea.

I'm interested in making this a community project, not a Kestrel project, so feedback on all and any aspects of it, excepting the primary goal of fostering an active RP/story-driven community, are essential.

Similarly if anyone out there is interested and does think there should be rules, be sure to speak up! If you don't, I'll concede instead to the most visible consensus. Though once the game and this clan are up and running, and it ideally has more people actively running it than just Kestrel, we can always experiment with different systems and reconvene if something is/isn't working depending on how things go.

I will incidentally be looking to specifically empower people within the clan (as moderators, newbie helpers/mentors and community touchstones etc.) who categorically disagree with me on as many aspects of what constitutes quality RP as possible. It's important to me that this doesn't become an echo chamber, as my perspectives are limited to what I personally enjoy. We can hopefully get a bunch of people writing some different guides/resources for different styles of RP, or even different aspects of the lore, for example Amaian RP tips, a list of Amaian dynasties for people who like paragraph RP, etc.

Kedlin

I think it’s important to have different styles and standards. As long is it doesn’t split the community. You often find that people with strong opinions on how things should be done, when in leadership roles etc will hold back those they don’t see as conforming and can result in people leaving.
Personally I’ll be keeping away from anything OOC in game, choosing to build and develop any in game friendships and rivalries on the fly.

Cubey

@Kestrel You tell me not to confuse means of pursuing RP and content of RP, but in my experience there is a significant difference between the way roleplaying looks in both scenarios are described. Perhaps because the more I think about it, the means of how you look out for RP is not the important distinction here. Everything you talked about sounded like the first of my two scenarios for me - even when it's not pre-arranged but happens organically when you stumble upon someone.

So let's say: The way I see it, the second scenario engages with already established gameplay mechanics, the first overlays roleplaying atop of them. So, you say it's frustrating to interact with 10 people and not have one of them emote, because that means they do not engage with you on the "roleplaying" layer. But I say you can not emote and still be roleplaying if you are behaving like a character who is in the setting and has a specific personality (as opposed to the character just being the player being themselves), if the character is still engaging with you on a gameplay layer and not acting OOC or whatnot. Likewise, roleplayed fight scenes are a roleplaying layer thing and thus are a part of the first type of roleplaying. People who roleplay in the second type just use actual ingame mechanics instead.

Hopefully I managed to make my definitions clearer this time. Also once again, neither of these styles is better or worse than the other. They're just different.

Kestrel

Cubey said:

So let's say: The way I see it, the second scenario engages with already established gameplay mechanics, the first overlays roleplaying atop of them. So, you say it's frustrating to interact with 10 people and not have one of them emote, because that means they do not engage with you on the "roleplaying" layer. But I say you can not emote and still be roleplaying if you are behaving like a character who is in the setting and has a specific personality (as opposed to the character just being the player being themselves), if the character is still engaging with you on a gameplay layer and not acting OOC or whatnot. Likewise, roleplayed fight scenes are a roleplaying layer thing and thus are a part of the first type of roleplaying. People who roleplay in the second type just use actual ingame mechanics instead.

I mean, to you that's roleplaying but to me it isn't. Even if I were to capitulate on terminology and say, 'OK, I guess that is a kind of roleplaying, just a different kind', it wouldn't improve my ability to enjoy these interactions as a roleplayer or satisfy my RP cravings. It does nothing for me. It's a bit like if I tell you I really love cooking and you hand me a microwavable ready-meal from the frozen aisle of a supermarket. Like OK I guess sticking that into a microwave for however many minutes the box says is, on some level, cooking dinner for myself, because the microwave is a kitchen appliance which was invented to cook food for people and I am, in that sense, cooking the food inside this box. You are technically correct. But when I say I love cooking, what I mean is I'm a foodie who loves experimenting with different recipes and trying new ingredients and that I derive joy from the satisfaction of knowing I made something, I created something, maybe even invented it, and that using my creativity, talent and a bit of help, I transformed these seemingly innocuous ingredients into a delicious meal that I could be happy with.

It simply isn't useful for me to describe the process of microwaving a ready-meal as cooking when we both know that's not what I meant when I said I love cooking. Simply existing and performing some action inside a kitchen, like boiling a kettle or sticking something in the microwave, isn't 'cooking' to me, any more than standing in a city crossroads in an IRE MUD and typing nod Cubey or say hi is roleplaying, to me. And even if I were to concede that it's RP for some people, we both know that it isn't what I mean when I say I'm hungry for some RP right now, or that I play Starmourn predominantly to RP. nod Cubey isn't the kind of RP anyone who self-identifies as an avid roleplayer, who predominantly MUDs for the RP, would play any MUD for. Of course some people don't MUD with RP/story as their main goal and that's OK.

I would therefore distinguish 'staying/being IC' from roleplaying, a distinction I also mentioned here.

Furthermore, and here we're getting a bit philosophical so I will stress this is just an opinion, I don't personally think that what's true in anyone's head is half so important as the manner in which they enact it onto the world. Meaning: authorial intent is meaningless if the author's literature doesn't speak for itself; being a 'terrific RPer' in your own head, where you know a lot about your own character and where every action your character undertakes makes perfect sense to you, is meaningless if you aren't putting it out there for other people to see and react to. If your character attacks mine for reasons that make perfect sense to you, and in your head that attack is performed as a beautiful, elegant war dance, that means absolutely nothing to me if you didn't take the time to write the way they dance for me to read, and if you made no effort to visibly demonstrate the reasons and feelings behind your character's attack.

That's why I call RP a performance art. You gotta perform. No one cares about the beautiful symphony in your head if you aren't going to whip out that violin. It's also a social activity; solo RP is just writing; and RP without writing anything for others to read is just being/staying IC.

EDIT: While I was typing this post, the delicious pulled jackfruit & coconut yoghurt tzatziki flatbread crackers I made for myself got cold. THANKS CUBEY.

Cubey

So you're gatekeeping and saying "this thing I do is RP but this thing you do is not". Got it.

Also cool points for false equivalency and acting like anyone who doesn't do "performance art" is just playing themselves and staying IC by substituting OOC terms with IC ones.

Squeakums

Just wanted to voice my opinion on this matter. I'd definitely join a group for RP connections, though I wouldn't like it to become an RP police or any kind. Maybe establish 'rules' that are ideals to strive for, but let every member make the choice of how committed they want to be in following them? 

I like very deep roleplay where complex stories and characters with flaws are explored, but I'm also okay with interacting with people that don't take it nearly as seriously as that. I would hope that everybody would feel welcome in a group like this one.

As a side note, as much as I like IRE combat, emote combat is also super fun when both parties just want to tell a cool story. I'm happy to see other like minded people and look forward to trying to stick you with the pointy end of a flaming kithblade. 

Xiru

Long paragraph emotes can cause Nexus to lag on my Chromebook. I don't know why, didn't do it on the old one. So y'all ain't getting any of those from me. But man, this entire post is tl;dr which is how I approach RP in a fast paced game like MUDS tend to be.

Kedlin

Cubey said:

So you're gatekeeping and saying "this thing I do is RP but this thing you do is not". Got it.

Also cool points for false equivalency and acting like anyone who doesn't do "performance art" is just playing themselves and staying IC by substituting OOC terms with IC ones.

Yep. That’s how she rolls. 

annys

Cubey said:

So you're gatekeeping and saying "this thing I do is RP but this thing you do is not". Got it.

Also cool points for false equivalency and acting like anyone who doesn't do "performance art" is just playing themselves and staying IC by substituting OOC terms with IC ones.

To be fair, I really don't think that's what is going on at all. The semantic exchange here should make it quite clear that no one person's view of RP (even as simple as how you try to define it!) is universal.

It really, really, can't be pinned down into two distinct forms, or three ways we can't.

I really don't think it can be codified at all! Each of our unique RP experiences, what we want out of them, and how we get them, are completely individual. The magic comes from how we still manage to interact with each others. There is no invalid way to initiate, or participate in RP.

I really think the goal here is to try to bridge that gap, and find the magic. How do we find it, not how do we find out how each other is wrong?

bairloch

I do not roleplay in the manner described above. I simply live in that world. I speak as my character would speak and do what my character would do. If it requires an emote, I'll emote. If the game already describes my actions, I leave that to the game. If my character isn't doing anything overt or obvious, I don't emote. If they are, I do.
But I'm roleplaying. That I definitely am.

annys

bairloch said:

I do not roleplay in the manner described above. I simply live in that world. I speak as my character would speak and do what my character would do. If it requires an emote, I'll emote. If the game already describes my actions, I leave that to the game. If my character isn't doing anything overt or obvious, I don't emote. If they are, I do.
But I'm roleplaying. That I definitely am.

The simplicity is actually sublime.

Kestrel

Cubey said:

So you're gatekeeping and saying "this thing I do is RP but this thing you do is not". Got it.

Also cool points for false equivalency and acting like anyone who doesn't do "performance art" is just playing themselves and staying IC by substituting OOC terms with IC ones.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you wanna be reductive and all offended there isn't much I can do in the spirit of productive conversation. Why Are You So Angry, Jack?

Some people like ready-meals, some people don't. Who am I to judge? All I know is that even when it got cold, those spicy pulled jackfruit & coconut tzatziki flatbread crackers were delicious, worth every second of my time, and I wouldn't trade them or the like-minded WFPB foodie groups I've joined on Facebook for the world.

This lady gave me a recipe for a thing she calls T-crack. It's made with tahini, lemon juice and dates. It's like a salad dressing but it's an everything dressing and it is so good. Look it up. I didn't use it this time but it's actually so easy to make so you know if that kind of thing genuinely interests you and you're just curious about a good place to start, I would start there. Lots of people in these communities are really enthusiastic and passionate about what they do, and happy to share cooking tips with anyone who asks.

For my part, I'm a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern gal like any other and I might never be too good for a greasy falafel down the corner shop with friends, but if any of them want to shame me for how much I enjoy cooking without oil and hanging out with other people who feel the same way, that's their complex, not mine. No one is trying to force you to join an OOC clan for people with particular preferences for RP that may not be the style you're personally most comfortable with prepare spicy pulled jackfruit & coconut tzatziki flatbread crackers but if you're this defensive about it then maybe the problem is that for your personal peace of mind, you have the subconscious need to have everyone tell you that your style is the best and all they could ever ask for and that there's definitely nothing wrong with deep-fried falafel/shwarma every day because that's all you like to eat and know how to make. The one who's trying to gatekeep is you; all I want is to paragraph RP in peace with other people who share my views on what constitutes fun RP and to make a clan for them to congregate with other like-minded people make spicy pulled jackfruit & coconut tzatziki and swap tips with other kitchen witches who may not like the same things as you, not make all the culinary styles in the world homogenous. You know I don't actually owe you my time on Starmourn, or my jackfruit. Which I would have been happy to share and patiently walk you through how to make regardless of your prior cooking experience, if you weren't being such an ass about it.

OK you got me my foot fetish example was actually about my far more shameful food fetish.

Dorc

There is only one place that paragraph long emotes are needed.

Sexbot Bar.

annys

Dorc said:

There is only one place that paragraph long emotes are needed.

Sexbot Bar.

I want a disagree button. They are most definitely needed, just not for everyone. Some of us just want to be very, very wordy with how we want to pretend to feel. And that shiz is magical too.

Dorc

annys said:

Dorc said:

There is only one place that paragraph long emotes are needed.

Sexbot Bar.

I want a disagree button. They are most definitely needed, just not for everyone. Some of us just want to be very, very wordy with how we want to pretend to feel. And that shiz is magical too.

You obviously took my statement far more serious than was obviously (at least to me) intended. It was a very tongue-in-cheek statement.

Kestrel

Dorc said:

annys said:

Dorc said:

There is only one place that paragraph long emotes are needed.

Sexbot Bar.

I want a disagree button. They are most definitely needed, just not for everyone. Some of us just want to be very, very wordy with how we want to pretend to feel. And that shiz is magical too.

You obviously took my statement far more serious than was obviously (at least to me) intended. It was a very tongue-in-cheek statement.

I'm British so I only communicate via sarcasm. You have no idea how much trouble that gets me into on the internet. :awesome:

annys

Dorc said:

annys said:

Dorc said:

There is only one place that paragraph long emotes are needed.

Sexbot Bar.

I want a disagree button. They are most definitely needed, just not for everyone. Some of us just want to be very, very wordy with how we want to pretend to feel. And that shiz is magical too.

You obviously took my statement far more serious than was obviously (at least to me) intended. It was a very tongue-in-cheek statement.

Acknowledged, but I still want a damned disagree button! I'm checking out of the sexbot bar in this clan.

edit: And definitely checking into paragraph long emotes.

Dorc

Kestrel said:

Dorc said:

annys said:

Dorc said:

There is only one place that paragraph long emotes are needed.

Sexbot Bar.

I want a disagree button. They are most definitely needed, just not for everyone. Some of us just want to be very, very wordy with how we want to pretend to feel. And that shiz is magical too.

You obviously took my statement far more serious than was obviously (at least to me) intended. It was a very tongue-in-cheek statement.

I'm British so I only communicate via sarcasm. You have no idea how much trouble that gets me into on the internet. :awesome:

Canadian, but first born off the boat from London. So, yeah, communication for me is either dry humour or straight up sarcasm

 Followed by an apology.

annys

Bleh, I'm just actually trying to be serious.

Kestrel

Dorc said:

Kestrel said:

Dorc said:

annys said:

Dorc said:

There is only one place that paragraph long emotes are needed.

Sexbot Bar.

I want a disagree button. They are most definitely needed, just not for everyone. Some of us just want to be very, very wordy with how we want to pretend to feel. And that shiz is magical too.

You obviously took my statement far more serious than was obviously (at least to me) intended. It was a very tongue-in-cheek statement.

I'm British so I only communicate via sarcasm. You have no idea how much trouble that gets me into on the internet. :awesome:

Canadian, but first born off the boat from London. So, yeah, communication for me is either dry humour or straight up sarcasm

 Followed by an apology.

I would apologise, but I'm not just British, I'm also Middle Eastern / Mediterranean. Which means you can like my food, and my sarcasm, or you can fuck right off.

Cubey

Kestrel said:

Cubey said:

So you're gatekeeping and saying "this thing I do is RP but this thing you do is not". Got it.

Also cool points for false equivalency and acting like anyone who doesn't do "performance art" is just playing themselves and staying IC by substituting OOC terms with IC ones.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you wanna be reductive and all offended there isn't much I can do in the spirit of productive conversation. Why Are You So Angry, Jack?

Some people like ready-meals, some people don't. Who am I to judge? All I know is that even when it got cold, those spicy pulled jackfruit & coconut tzatziki flatbread crackers were delicious, worth every second of my time, and I wouldn't trade them or the like-minded WFPB foodie groups I've joined on Facebook for the world.

See, here I was going to provide an example of what I consider second type roleplaying and ask if you think it's "real" roleplaying or just staying IC - but bairloch did it for me. Do you think what he's doing is preferring a ready meal over a home cooked one?

Also, between the two of us I'm not the one who's being an ass, just masking it with a thin layer of passive aggressive smalltalk friendliness and long paragraphs that have nothing to do with the conversation on hand. I'm definitely not the one who looks at people who don't roleplay they way I do and say they're doing it wrong - oh, but they're totally allowed to if they so decide, after all some people like nice things and others like garbage, who am I to judge.

The italicized part is sarcasm by the way.

annys

Cubey said:

Kestrel said:

Cubey said:

So you're gatekeeping and saying "this thing I do is RP but this thing you do is not". Got it.

Also cool points for false equivalency and acting like anyone who doesn't do "performance art" is just playing themselves and staying IC by substituting OOC terms with IC ones.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you wanna be reductive and all offended there isn't much I can do in the spirit of productive conversation. Why Are You So Angry, Jack?

Some people like ready-meals, some people don't. Who am I to judge? All I know is that even when it got cold, those spicy pulled jackfruit & coconut tzatziki flatbread crackers were delicious, worth every second of my time, and I wouldn't trade them or the like-minded WFPB foodie groups I've joined on Facebook for the world.

See, here I was going to provide an example of what I consider second type roleplaying and ask if you think it's "real" roleplaying or just staying IC - but bairloch did it for me. Do you think what he's doing is preferring a ready meal over a home cooked one?

Also, between the two of us I'm not the one who's being an ass, just masking it with a thin layer of passive aggressive smalltalk friendliness and long paragraphs that have nothing to do with the conversation on hand. I'm definitely not the one who looks at people who don't roleplay they way I do and say they're doing it wrong - oh, but they're totally allowed to if they so decide, after all some people like nice things and others like garbage, who am I to judge.

The italicized part is sarcasm by the way.

You're the one who opened up with "the two versions of roleplay". Are there more, that don't fit yours?

Kestrel

We can reduce this to a back-and-forth no u if you like @Cubey, but I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

And roleplay in different circles.

Dorc

On the actual topic, if I am in the mood for long drawn out roleplay emotes, or not at work when you engage with me, I will do so. If I am not, I will nod, say hi, maybe murder you for wearing a yellow shirt, who knows? Roleplay does not always have to be dinner at the Ritz, sometimes it can be stopping at McDonalds.

As long as one of us (me) leaves satisfied I am happy.

Xiru

bairloch said:

I do not roleplay in the manner described above. I simply live in that world. I speak as my character would speak and do what my character would do. If it requires an emote, I'll emote. If the game already describes my actions, I leave that to the game. If my character isn't doing anything overt or obvious, I don't emote. If they are, I do.
But I'm roleplaying. That I definitely am.

This. I don't plan much either. I'm definitely a fan of RP that just develops in the course of playing the game. Even if I don't join a clan because the planning and match-making just isn't for me.

Kestrel

It also occurs to me that I'm not the most charismatic individual, for which I entirely blame my heritage, which I can do but you can't because that's how being brown works.

So if anyone is not only interested in this clan but also interested/willing to take up a sort of co-leadership position and serve as a community leader where their role is to be really polite and friendly to people I so often lack the patience for, hmu and it's yours.

I was pretty serious about this being a community project and I tend to be very lax in general any time I end up in any kind of position of power, particularly when it comes to delegation and letting other people run the show. I just like making stuff and then running away to let other people deal with the details. So to be honest I see this clan being run as a bit of a kibbutz in which more or less anyone who's been around for a minimum of 5 minutes has editing permissions to be able to write some guides and resources and news posts and stuff.