Classlead AFfliction Reports

SenzeiSenzei Member, Volunteer Coder Posts: 6 Volunteer Coder
edited December 2020 in Feedback
Hello Everyone!

I have come to you with a trove of information to go over and give your thoughts and feedback.  But I have rules!

Rule 1: All posts are directed at me. If you have back and forth to do, do it in game or discord, then come back with your summaries. Ideally we will avoid 100 posts of 2-4 people arguing back and forth.  If you want to address someone's point in your reply, you can speak to the point.  "Regarding the destruction of Alderaan, I think blah". 

Rule 1 was lifted, we will see if we can keep it civil without it!

Rule 2: Your goal is to convince me of your stance. If you believe the change is bad, you should try to establish why and provide some evidence. If it is good, explain!

I will number them to make it easier to respond by number if desired. Note that some of these are already done. Humor and wit was left for all to enjoy.


==2==
Sensory afflictions don't have a whole lot of power, and what power is there is diffused over too many afflictions. Blind, deaf, comm blackouts -- consolidating their effects and improving them overall should help bring sensory to a usable place in the game. This classlead submission should be considered alongside another bug report, which I will specify in comments.

SOLUTION 1: deaf is entirely irrelevant. Comms blackout is weak. Rolling comms blackout into deaf so that deaf blocks every instance (not a chance, but every single instance) of every type of verbal communication, meaning says, tells, crew tells, clan tells, faction tells, deathsights, commerce, etc., would provide a meaningful effect. Even with this change, it still does nothing in a pure 1v1 fight -- it only disrupts group coordination.

SOLUTION 2: blind becomes relevant if it stops people from blocking movement in addition to interfering with look and information regarding player movement. The exception to this effect would be provided by abilities like scoundrel's GUILE BAR defense. It would gain more power if it also hid information regarding what other characters are doing in the room.

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above

==3==

Sensory doesn't have enough afflictions to work with, and it has only one affliction that directly affects combat (blurry vision). More direct impact is needed to bring it to a usable place.

SOLUTION 1: New subsystem affliction to replace comms blackout, which I will call "Super Duper Itchy" (that's, erm, my officially recommended name): Channeled abilities take longer to complete, including crash, OR interrupting a channeled ability, including crash, imposes a significant balance loss (I'll put 2.5 seconds on it, though I'm not sure). The way crash works now, you can crash, get interrupted, and crash again immediately, getting away for sure because the crash channel is short. It functions similarly to muscular's crippled movement in some respects.

SOLUTION 2: make dizzy something useful, such as a chance to be afflicted with prone when hit. Note that furies have a defense called balancing that allows them to stay standing instead of getting knocked over all the time. A change to dizzy may require tweaking class abilities, but losing dizzy as it is now is no loss at all.

SOLUTION 3: Nearsighted retains its can't-attack-outside-current-room but also gains a 10% damage reduction to ranged-type attack damage within the room, and blurry vision becomes a stacking affliction that ramps up in how much damage it reduces (I'm thinking 5, 10, 20) instead of just 10%. The rationale here is that sensory offers disruption that only has soft effects that cannot be bypassed, and so it needs some kind of punch, somewhere, in the affliction list so that it directly affects combat. I am not certain I like the numbers for this solution, but I do think nearsighted is too weak and blurry vision could be buffed.

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above

==4== (This was left because of discussion about the solution used)
Muscular afflictions do too much hinder, making it the most directly useful in combat. It can substantially reduce damage dealt by an opponent and substantially increase balance costs for that opponent, and, currently, doing both simultaneously is the norm. Toning down either the damage reductions or the balance reductions should be sufficient to help the other affliction categories compete. Damaged limbs do not have a timer to cure, and so it's quite normal to end up with multiple damaged limbs that never get cured or that eat up wetwiring cure ticks for more individually impactful afflictions. Crippled movement (subsystem affliction, not curable except by mending subsystem) is dangerous and much, much stronger than alternatives that impede the ability to move around (read: escape). Myopathy (also subsys aff), on top of it all, is quite good, too. Altogether, it's oppressive hinder, and toning it down a little should help other affliction types compete.

SOLUTION 1: add a timer to the damaged limbs afflictions. They functionally never get cured because of no timer, or, they end up diluting the affliction cure pool. Why timers this isn't already in place is a really, really good question.

SOLUTION 2: reduce crippled movement duration from 2 seconds to 1 second. The trick with crippled movement is that other balance penalty effects functionally stack with this.

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above

==5==
For your information, there's a significant number of afflictions that have similar effects and are all similarly useless. I don't think anyone would miss them. Let's get started! The first group, one for each subsystem: Tender, trauma, dazed, stupefied, and vulnerable. For an example of what they do, here's what tender does: "Each stack increases muscular damage by 10%. Can only be given to targets with at least 25% muscular damage." Like the other four afflictions of this design, tender deals no subsystem damage when afflicted and stacks up to five times. That means it takes, on average, about 15 seconds to stack it up (and they get 3 ticks of wetwiring curing in that time) and, in that time, you could do a whole lot better than that. The second group: Spasms, choking, painspike, seizures, and shortcircuit. Here's what spasms does: "Causes periodic muscular subsystem damage. Can only be given to targets with at least 50% muscular damage." I hear that these are less useless because they don't require stacking, but they're still pretty bad because they apply no subsystem damage immediately. Personally, I don't bother with any of these 10 afflictions because they're almost entirely a waste of time, with the possible exception of choking for a scoundrel pushing internals for a forcefeed kill (I haven't bothered adding this in, but it could be done).

"SOLUTION 1," in air quotes -- get rid of group 1. Erase it. Ta-da! No more problem! Free up those affliction names for something more interesting.

"SOLUTION 2": I'm resorting to spitballing ideas, here. Rework group 1 to have direct subsystem damage (say, 100) and possibly have fewer stacks. Say, 3. Or, no stacks at all, and just make it a 25% damage increase to that subsystem. Or a lower percentage, or a greater one. I don't know.

"SOLUTION 3": add direct subsystem damage to group 2 afflictions so that they have an impact right away, and aren't a complete waste of time in case they're cured right away.

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above

==6==
Proposal: I'd like to propose a change to BLIND and DEAF, I'd like to have them combined into a skill called SENSORY_DEPRIVATION the conditions would be can't LOOK, see people enter or leave, or hear says. If movement happens cannot see the room entered. This will leave an affliction over for a new skill I'd like to suggest for sensory. Sensory deprivation would do 200 subsys damage to sensory. Thanks!

==7==
Proposal: I'd like to propose a new skill for Sensory tree called SENSORY_FEEDBACK. Sensory lacks hinder or damage pressure. As a way to help with that I'd like to see if this affliction can cause 5% damage back on the target when they attack. The idea being that the nervous system is in overload and sensitive to the point of hurting yourself with the exertion of attacking. I'd like to see this give 200 subsys damage to sensory.

==8==
Internal subsystem afflictions need to be more impactful. Internal's rejection subsystem affliction hardly every works, making it a very weak subsystem affliction. Coughing blood is pretty low impact, too. Internal bleeding's damage is low, but it does add up over the course of a fight. The overall impression I get from the internal subsystem is that it is slow but steady pressure on vitals that crescendos suddenly, and these suggestions are aimed at shifting power around while staying close to the feel of what we have now.

SOLUTION 1: tweak 1st internal subsystem affliction. increase the power of internal bleeding by having hypertension increase internal bleeding's damage by 50%, or by having coughing blood increase the damage from internal bleeding.

SOLUTION 2: rework 2nd internal subsystem affliction. Make coughing blood the replacement to old rejection, meaning coughing blood is now second in the progression of internal subsystem afflictions. When internal bleeding (the first in the progression) processes, the target loses 0.5 seconds of balance, and displays a visual cue for this to show that the target is sputtering blood (it may do this now, I don't know).

SOLUTION 3: rework 3rd internal subsystem affliction. Tweak rejection and make it the 3rd internal subsystem affliction instead of coughing blood. Increase the chance for rejection to process to 50%.

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above

==9== 
Mind subsystem afflictions don't keep up. Also, brain swelling doesn't work -- it's definitely not keeping up. My approach is to consolidate stupidity and forgetfulness, which then ramp up, and are followed by a new brain swelling which works to complete the mental breakdown.

SOLUTION 1: tweaked 1st mind subsystem affliction. Stupidity is annoying, but it's not that hard to write a script that handles it no problem. Add current Forgetfulness' effect to Stupidity to make Stupidity meaningful. I suggest renaming it Carelessness, reflecting occasional inefficiencies that may add up to a significant failure in combat.

SOLUTION 2: reworked 2nd mind subsystem affliction. Forgetfulness brings stupidity to where it should be. Rework Forgetfulness to make the target temporarily forget how to perform an action or to suffer a penalty for performing an action repeatedly. Option 1: every time someone uses an ability, that ability has a 3-5 second cooldown added to it after balance is regained (or an 6-8 or so second cooldown added on ability use). Option 2: the affliction tracks the last 3 abilities used. If the ability you use matches 1 of the 3 previous abilities used, you suffer a 1.5 second balance loss. Option 3: like option 2, but a 9 second timer instead. (Note that all classheals have a 10 second normally.)

SOLUTION 3: reworked 3rd mind subsystem affliction. Brainswelling doesn't work. At this point in the fight, things should be going downhill towards a fast conclusion. Brainswelling now applies, at random, one of the following afflictions that the target doesn't have every 5 seconds: acrophobia, disorientation, distraction, encroachment, hallucinations, sluggish, stupefied, vertigo (just throwing some out there). This might not be powerful enough, but it sure is better than literally nothing, which is what we have.

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above

==10==
Mind has a few abilities that don't quite do their jobs, for various reasons.

SOLUTION 1: reworked mind affliction. Disorientation now has a high chance (say, 50%) to make movement fail instead of having a high chance (unknown) to send into a random direction. This is the lowest priority of all changes I have suggested for afflictions.

SOLUTION 2: reworked mind affliction. Confusion now has a ~35% chance to proc every time the afflicted character uses an ability. When confusion procs, it knocks the character's balance by 1.5 seconds and inflicts health damage, while still allowing the ability to go through. The damage scales according to weapon + mods + artifacts, as mental damage.

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above

==11==
More sensory afflictions or changes.

SOLUTION 1: new affliction. borrow the recklessness affliction's mechanics from Achaea, but rename it something related to feeling euphorically healthy or to wetwiring-to-mindsim communication failure. Option 1: Health shown to be max. Damage taken appears to be set to zero. Despite knowing better, your body's telling your mind and your mindsim that you feel great! Option 2: go with something that is more akin to a complete cutoff of your information between wetwiring and the sim, meaning your health stops updating, and you can't see damage taken and healing done from class heals or from wetwiring health healing.

SOLUTION 2: rework affliction. echoing becomes an affliction that, when the target cures an affliction, echoing causes the reappliction of the cured affliction 5 seconds after it is cured. Echoing expires once it has "echoed" an affliction in this way.

SOLUTION 3: new affliction. add "sensitivity," straight from Achaea. Damage to health received is increased by 10%.

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above

==12==
The sensory subsystem needs better subsystem afflictions. See "Super Duper Itchy" the new 1st sensory subsystem affliciton.

SOLUTION 1: new 2nd sensory subsystem affliction. "vitals error". This mindsim affliction causes your current afflictions to be unknown, hides reporting of new afflictions, and hides curing. Your subsystem health is still visible. Wetwiring still cures as normal.

SOLUTION 2: new 3rd sensory subsystem affliction. I'm still looking for an idea, though I'm considering something like the recklessness suggestion in BUG 3844. I'm also considering demented vision, but I'm not convinced it's good enough. 

If a change was already implemented, feel free to comment it was done. I will remove the entry to streamline. 

Once again, direct all thoughts and feedback at me. Let it begin!

EXTRA SOLUTION X: All of the above
PoetSqueakumsSozaNykara

Comments

  • SteveSteve Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    @Senzei From the update on 12/3/2020:

    - Crippled movement's penalty duration has been halved, from 2 seconds to one second.
    - The Encroachment affliction will now immediately eject you from cover as soon as it is inflicted, this used to take up to several seconds.
    - The rejection odds have been doubled, and now this affliction may also stop you from healing subsystem damage.

    I think we need to talk more about crippled movement, but it has been changed according to what is currently labeled as Affliction Lead #4, Solution #2. (Solution #1 for that Affliction Lead should still be considered and discussed. I wrote that Affliction Lead intending for the Solutions not necessarily to be mutually exclusive.)
  • NykaraNykara Member Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    @Senzei
    Let's start here, with ==4==
    There has been a lot of discussion. I have proposed that Crippled Movement gets taken from Musc 75 and placed in Glitching's place in the Wetwiring subsys. Then, combine Glitching with Rejection, and finally, put something new in for Musc 75. There's been a lot of discussion, and despite the fact that the idea was met with general positive acclaim, coming to a consensus on what will be a good replacement has been quite a bit more difficult. Just wanted to make this visible for my first post, as it's very important imo.
    Steve
  • SozaSoza Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    Ive made a couple comments on the discord, but ill relay them here in an easy manner so they dont get lost and add the rest of my thoughts.

    1.) Has been completed and looks good.

    2.) Both solutions fix a half of the problem and likely both solutions need to be implemented in some sort of manner, There really isnt any reason for anyone to push sensory as is because it is literally just garbage.

    3.) Kinda just further pushing the point of 2, but when blind/deaf get changed up some, Sensory really just needs more afflictions in general.

    4.) We already have the extra time added to escape being an single second now, though this affliction is just the big bad. I believe a big bunch of hate for this affliction will disappear once other trees have afflictions that help hinder roughly as much as the new version of this one does.

    5.) This does a pretty good job at describing how useless those things are. -no comment-

    6.) Sensory Deprivation, yet another push saying sensory is garbage. This would be a good push into making a decent affliction would need more added to sensory as stated.

    7.) Sensory Feedback, I enjoy the direction of this but 5% is a bit really low. The classes looking to push sensory are scoundrel and nanoseer two classes who have very small damage when pushing sensory. an avg balance from a player can range from 500-1200 damage, at min value 5% gives 25 damage reflect, and at max, 60. I would suggest this being somewhere in the range of 10-15% which is 50-120/75-180 damage

    8.) This was sorta touched on but will still need a little more help in the early stages of internal, the subsystem afflictions are quite terrible.

    9.) Mind subsys in general has a ton of problems, and these changes push it in the correct direction to help out.

    10.) Solution 1: This change currently will not effect the combat in almost any effective way. Noone runs from mind until the fight is over.
    10.) Solution 2: This change pushes confusion back into being an effective affliction and is generally the idea I came up with after approximately two weeks of thoughtprocessing, and asking peoples opinions on discord as depicted here https://forums.starmourn.com/discussion/1141/nanoseer-confusion-a-cry-for-help/p1?new=1. Though I would like to add that the damage should originate from the nanoseers goggles(power) +goggle mods+ goggle artifact.

    11.) Recklessness would have an interesting impact and be a little power gating to newer players attempting to get into pvp as its a very confusing affliction when you cant just EAT X to cure it instantly and youd have to wait for wetwiring to cure it.
    11.) Echoing being changed in this way is something Id prefer to see inside of the Mind tree though I can see it having a place in sensory aswell and it could be forked as a nanoseer who is pushing for breakdown.

    12.) Vitals Error could be used very well in conjunction with the aformentioned echoing and would possibly help scoundrel and nanoseer in a big way with their mind/sensory.
    Steve
  • NykaraNykara Member Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    @Senzei
    ==2==
    I support solution 1, and tentatively censure solution 2. Blind no longer enforcing combat blocking (ie, not requiring a crash to leave) would make that ability very powerful. Combined with the fact that kneecap (scoundrel) now gets scaling from sensory, that could create a serious problem where a scoundrel can do a lot of burst damage and simply walk away if their opponent starts rocking them. That's very dangerous, in my opinion, but it does sound like a fun and interesting interaction, at least on paper.

    ==3==
    I support solution 1, with a lower balance knock. 2.5 seconds is a little too rough imo; 1 second should be enough. This means if they queue up crash, they should be able to still get out, but it will be very tight. This is important to Starmourn combat; there should be a bit of a cat-and-mouse game. Nobody should be locked into a single room indefinitely, which is what this would encourage. Even moreso, it would encourage it against a nanoseer or a scoundrel; Nanoseer could continue to lean on pressure as their target repeatedly fails their re-crash to frozen ground, and Scoundrel has the ability to fort up their room, so yanno.  I censure Solution 3; nearsighted already allows a scoundrel to win any LOS fight hands-down, and increasing its power is not in the cards. This is the only Sensory affliction that has any tooth, but it's a LOT of tooth, even if in the current combat meta it doesn't see a lot of play (due to almost no group fighting).

    ==5==
    Instead of specifying a solution here, I would like to simply support several of them in tandem; I think that the scaling should go up to 15 or 20%, and that they should deal 100 sys damage upon application. This will make them an actual advantage later for some cost early. Getting 25% sys damage on your opponent should be rewarding, and at current, those abilities don't actually gain you any kind of sys advantage. As one solution pointed out, "you could do a whole lot better in that time"; to be more exact, if they don't cure any stacks, you could deal 20% sys damage over 30 seconds by doing a regular attack on each of those 10 balances, or 20% sys damage over 30 seconds by doing 5 stacks and then 5 attacks. I said 30 seconds because that's how long they last; at the 30 second mark, wetwiring cures them, and you've literally gained no actual advantage. Increasing the bonus per stack, as well as adding sys damage, will make the affliction rewarding to use, instead of possibly punishing.

    Don't touch group 2. It actually has a strong use; it allows you to nearly guarantee you will manage to get your instakill off. They're very good afflictions. Maybe increase the amount of damage they do a little bit, but as long as they total to 2%+, they are on par.

    ==6==Censure, but see report 2.

    ==7==
    I support this, but only if it's only given to eyestrike. Scoundrel's pool is already big enough and we'd have to remove an aff to put it in, as well as the fact that Scoundrel already has enough health pressure. This would give Nanoseer the ability to generate health pressure early, which can help them stick affs (which they very much need to!) without diverting from their main affliction strategy. 5% is a good number; it's not a lot, but it's not nothing, either. Up to 15% would be acceptable, I think.

    ==8== has already been touched upon with my above post.

    ==9==
    This is tough, but I censure this. The problems are correct, but the solutions are far too strong. Solution 1 is fine, but solution 2 presents too much strength; 1.5 second balance knock or a cooldown is way too much in a game where classes are meant to fight by repeating abilities and, in some cases, MUST repeat those abilities due to a lack of options to continue their offense. The balance knock would also only come from two classes with very strong single-aff balance hinder; slowness 15%, sluggish 25%. (1.5 + 3.5) * 1.15 = 5.75 seconds off balance for a fury combo. That's kind of insane, since that will become the norm for them. It's even longer against a nanoseer, at 6.25 seconds. That's not fair.

    ETA: After some contemplation and discussion, I rescind my censure. I support solution 3. This will give Nanoseers a secure kill and there's nothing wrong with that.

    ==10==
    Support solution 2 but with the caveat that I only support solution 2 with a change: 35% damage proc chance, 15% balance proc chance. Again, confusion can be given by classes with strong single-aff balance hinder; and a nanoseer can, realistically, stick damaged limbs too. 45% balance hinder on a 1/3rd chance to knock for 1.5 seconds ... the person they're fighting no longer gets to play the game. It's spamming trip + bind all over again.

    ==11== solutions 1-3 all sound good, but where do they get put? Scoundrel can't get it, and they would just give nanoseer more power. That being said, nanoseer needs all that power, and diluting eyestrike's pool isn't really a problem.

    ==12==
    Rework double vision to, instead of a secondary confusion proc, make it cause a chance to lose balance for 1s. 20% is probably a good number, 35% being the upper limit in my opinion. However, it should never proc twice in a row; that would be immensely frustrating and game breaking in a game that relies on basically maintaining tempo. See clumsiness in other games being fight-deciding.
    Steve
  • SteveSteve Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    post removed because I forgot the respond only to Senzei here rule
  • SenzeiSenzei Member, Volunteer Coder Posts: 6 Volunteer Coder
    Steve said:
    post removed because I forgot the respond only to Senzei here rule
    You can respond to a point as "in regards to" or "I think".  So if you do not like that someone said "Cookies should have more brown sugar." You can still say "In regards to brown sugar", "I believe pure cane sugar is superior" etc. The goal is you can talk about something, but not to someone. Although we may lift that if people want as a rule, since Starmourn does not have the hostility I have seen elsewhere.
    NykaraSoza
  • SenzeiSenzei Member, Volunteer Coder Posts: 6 Volunteer Coder
    We're lifting the rule that all responses have to be aimed at me. I will still smack people with a hammer if it gets out of hand or we get 120 posts of 1 liners back and forth though.
  • RocketCatRocketCat Member Posts: 198 ✭✭✭
    I'm not going to touch on Sensory or on things implemented already, which basically leaves the Mind related stuff:

    9 & 10) I'm treating these together because it's all Mind-related.
      - Agreed Brain Swelling needs work. Whatever you choose is better than nothing.
      - Confusion was nerfed into the ground making it irrelevant in 1v1 and only relevant in groups -- meanwhile confusion does not feature in groups because using Mind in groups is obviously bad. I'd be willing to try the proposed solution to see. But a balance knock is a bit unimaginative and too-strong if combined with the proposed Stupidity/Forgetfulness changes in #9.
      - I'd be careful about providing extra hinder to Disorientation, given that other classes with already-strong hinder also have access to Disorientation. I don't see anything wrong with Disorientation. It can make it... disorienting... to try and flee to a specific spot. Sometimes you just wander back into the room you crashed from.
      - Stupidity is indeed too-easily defeated by scripts. How is a Mind-route Nano supposed to compete against Crippled Movement when they essentially don't receive anything from getting past the 75% mark? The proposal to merge Stupidity and Forgetfulness at 75% is worth considering. This still wouldn't even be as strong as Crippled Movement even after the nerf to that aff. I do not feel the same remorse as Nykara does above. I mean, Fury has freaking Hallucinations attached to their interrupt... I still can't shake the feeling though that balance knock is a bit unimaginative. I can't really think of an alternative at this time, but there must be a unique and creative solution out there.
    Hi, I'm Ata. Oh and maybe some other people, too. o:) Check out my various packages for Nexus: Vuu combat system, Global Pathfinder, Slicer Tools, Ship compass, JS from command line, Vitals Tracker, and Equipment Manager.
    Steve
  • JaidynJaidyn Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    ==2==
    Solution 1 looks good as is

    Solution 2 sensory needs some teeth this adds some, seeing as running away is currently like this in the arena unless the person is enemied **shrug** hmm as long as it's a curable affliction shouldn't be terrible. Nano can already channel traveller and beat any kind of stopping them from just running and scoundrel light armor means they need to run a lot. If proven to be imbal it can be adjusted.

    ==3==
    Solution 1 is interesting, currently crippled movement has been tweaked to 1 sec. Maybe start there and if it's not enough increase. 2.5 sec seems harsh to me because crashing away is a necessity between a couple good fighters.

    Solution 2 i like this change to dizzy. there's something weird going on with balancing. Sometimes they don't fall sometimes they do. Not sure what's up with that might warrant looking into

    Solution 3 isn't bad, just worried about Nano being -more- tanky than they already are. Makes sense for scoundrel though

    ==6==

    could be combined with ==2== solution 1

    ==7==

    good for nano, 1000 damage attack reflecting 100 at 10% doesn't seem overpowered. recent changes to scoundrel did give them more teeth but if you're using Jaidyn as a standard it's not really fair since he has so many artifacts. 5-10% I don't think would be OP for nano or scoundrel. it is a curable affliction after all not a stuck on system aff

    ==8==

    i think this was partially implemented already so let's see how it goes.

    ==11==
    I like solution 2 and 3 I think solution 1 heavily favors scripters who can manage this easily while others would really struggle.

    --> That's it for me, the others I don't know how to respond to. Thanks!! :pleased:


    Steve
  • SteveSteve Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    5: I think Nykara's right about this one -- I agree.

    7: I like the sound of this affliction. 10% or 15% damage back on attacks, even if exclusive to nanoseer (which I'm not convinced it needs to be), would be a good thing for nanoseer and, therefore, a good change to the game. However, the ability might be better if the damage dealt isn't based on attack damage but based on balance spent. Every time you spend balance, the damage from the affliction is modified based on the balance time for that ability. Modify the damage based on a relevant stat, weapon power, etc.

    Mind stuff:
    • Disorientation staying the same makes sense to me, after further consideration and having had some trouble because of it in the new arenas.
    • Anything is better than current brainswelling.
    • Merging stupidity and forgetfulness as the 75% subsystem affliction seems like a good thing to do.
    • Confusion having a balance knock is a bit unimaginative, as RocketCat says (I think that's what's being referred to, anyway). Confusion could be replaced with one of the afflictions offered in lead number 11, such as recklessness. Alternatively, we could have something like an affliction version of recklessness, where there's "confusion" about what afflictions the character is suffering from: current, gained, and lost. If it's a lot like recklessness, it might look like losing information regarding afflictions (current, gained, lost). If it's more like confusion, the names might be swapped at random with other afflictions. If it's about afflictions, I think scoundrel and nanoseer would both be good candidates for it because there's randomness built into their kits for which afflictions are being dealt.
    Sensory stuff:
    • Perhaps making the big sensory affliction the inability to block movement would work, even if it's too much to give to blind.
    Internal stuff:
    • Increasing rejection's power is a good first step but we really need more power early on.
    • More discussion on this would be good. Internal's real weakness is its subsystem afflictions. More comments on whether the proposed solutions will do the job would be helpful.
    Nykara
  • SozaSoza Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    The reason confusion is proposed the way it is, though a bit unimaginative, is that confusion is a nanoseer only affliction one of the only hindering afflictions that nanoseer can give in the mind tree. It started out a long time ago as an affliction that would *sometimes* cause the person afflicted to instead hit a different entity in the room. This meant that it could hit a player, a mob, a npc, or any loyal, ie pets. Confusion was already a "hit or miss" kinda aff but it gave the nanoseer enough hinder to slow down the enemy while the nanoseer could slowly build to their mind kill. Which is exactally what mind is, a slow hard to obtain kill. At this point in time, I came up with a brilliant plan. "what if confusion (nanos only hinder) always had a target for *when* it actually procced, and thus I started carrying a sentry drone around with me. This sentry drone, I would pickup before moving and place once I moved. This drone being there, and because of Albions incessant ways to kill pets had since become invincible. I eliminated the problem of confusion requiring another target in room to be a usable aff, not a good aff. A usable one. With confusion now usable in 1v1 it quickly became the target of hate, (expecially for furies as they have to roll against confusion once per attack, and once per rage). It was simply too much for the super strong furies to deal with and got nerfed into its current state. Which is the same as before but can only make you hit players/loyals that aren't loyal to you. As such confusion needs some sort of replacement effect that is going to help to keep the nanoseer alive while doing no health damage and probably being cured almost instantly.

    Tldr: confusion needs to be some sort of hinder aff.
  • NykaraNykara Member Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Soza said:
    The reason confusion is proposed the way it is, though a bit unimaginative, is that confusion is a nanoseer only affliction one of the only hindering afflictions that nanoseer can give in the mind tree. It started out a long time ago as an affliction that would *sometimes* cause the person afflicted to instead hit a different entity in the room. This meant that it could hit a player, a mob, a npc, or any loyal, ie pets. Confusion was already a "hit or miss" kinda aff but it gave the nanoseer enough hinder to slow down the enemy while the nanoseer could slowly build to their mind kill. Which is exactally what mind is, a slow hard to obtain kill. At this point in time, I came up with a brilliant plan. "what if confusion (nanos only hinder) always had a target for *when* it actually procced, and thus I started carrying a sentry drone around with me. This sentry drone, I would pickup before moving and place once I moved. This drone being there, and because of Albions incessant ways to kill pets had since become invincible. I eliminated the problem of confusion requiring another target in room to be a usable aff, not a good aff. A usable one. With confusion now usable in 1v1 it quickly became the target of hate, (expecially for furies as they have to roll against confusion once per attack, and once per rage). It was simply too much for the super strong furies to deal with and got nerfed into its current state. Which is the same as before but can only make you hit players/loyals that aren't loyal to you. As such confusion needs some sort of replacement effect that is going to help to keep the nanoseer alive while doing no health damage and probably being cured almost instantly.

    Tldr: confusion needs to be some sort of hinder aff.

    I agree with your tl;dr but I disagree with your statement that it was not a good aff. 35% hinder, with additional bonuses such as causing combo conditions to miss entirely and lose the combo for an entire round, is rather fantastic hinder. Even sluggish + 4 damaged limbs isn't that good. (Sluggish + slowness + 4 damaged limbs is, though!)

    eta: But 1 aff shouldn't be as good as 5-6 affs.
  • SozaSoza Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    Nykara said:
    Soza said:
    The reason confusion is proposed the way it is, though a bit unimaginative, is that confusion is a nanoseer only affliction one of the only hindering afflictions that nanoseer can give in the mind tree. It started out a long time ago as an affliction that would *sometimes* cause the person afflicted to instead hit a different entity in the room. This meant that it could hit a player, a mob, a npc, or any loyal, ie pets. Confusion was already a "hit or miss" kinda aff but it gave the nanoseer enough hinder to slow down the enemy while the nanoseer could slowly build to their mind kill. Which is exactally what mind is, a slow hard to obtain kill. At this point in time, I came up with a brilliant plan. "what if confusion (nanos only hinder) always had a target for *when* it actually procced, and thus I started carrying a sentry drone around with me. This sentry drone, I would pickup before moving and place once I moved. This drone being there, and because of Albions incessant ways to kill pets had since become invincible. I eliminated the problem of confusion requiring another target in room to be a usable aff, not a good aff. A usable one. With confusion now usable in 1v1 it quickly became the target of hate, (expecially for furies as they have to roll against confusion once per attack, and once per rage). It was simply too much for the super strong furies to deal with and got nerfed into its current state. Which is the same as before but can only make you hit players/loyals that aren't loyal to you. As such confusion needs some sort of replacement effect that is going to help to keep the nanoseer alive while doing no health damage and probably being cured almost instantly.

    Tldr: confusion needs to be some sort of hinder aff.

    I agree with your tl;dr but I disagree with your statement that it was not a good aff. 35% hinder, with additional bonuses such as causing combo conditions to miss entirely and lose the combo for an entire round, is rather fantastic hinder. Even sluggish + 4 damaged limbs isn't that good. (Sluggish + slowness + 4 damaged limbs is, though!)

    eta: But 1 aff shouldn't be as good as 5-6 affs.

    *aff that now 75% of the time doesnt actually do anything because no other targets in room, and 15% of the time instantly cured*

    The reason it's bad now is that it only works 5% of the time.
    Nykara
  • SozaSoza Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    Steve said:
    5: I think Nykara's right about this one -- I agree.

    7: I like the sound of this affliction. 10% or 15% damage back on attacks, even if exclusive to nanoseer (which I'm not convinced it needs to be), would be a good thing for nanoseer and, therefore, a good change to the game. However, the ability might be better if the damage dealt isn't based on attack damage but based on balance spent. Every time you spend balance, the damage from the affliction is modified based on the balance time for that ability. Modify the damage based on a relevant stat, weapon power, etc.

    Mind stuff:
    • Disorientation staying the same makes sense to me, after further consideration and having had some trouble because of it in the new arenas.
    • Anything is better than current brainswelling.
    • Merging stupidity and forgetfulness as the 75% subsystem affliction seems like a good thing to do.
    • Confusion having a balance knock is a bit unimaginative, as RocketCat says (I think that's what's being referred to, anyway). Confusion could be replaced with one of the afflictions offered in lead number 11, such as recklessness. Alternatively, we could have something like an affliction version of recklessness, where there's "confusion" about what afflictions the character is suffering from: current, gained, and lost. If it's a lot like recklessness, it might look like losing information regarding afflictions (current, gained, lost). If it's more like confusion, the names might be swapped at random with other afflictions. If it's about afflictions, I think scoundrel and nanoseer would both be good candidates for it because there's randomness built into their kits for which afflictions are being dealt.
    Sensory stuff:
    • Perhaps making the big sensory affliction the inability to block movement would work, even if it's too much to give to blind.
    Internal stuff:
    • Increasing rejection's power is a good first step but we really need more power early on.
    • More discussion on this would be good. Internal's real weakness is its subsystem afflictions. More comments on whether the proposed solutions will do the job would be helpful.

    Merging the two, (Stupidity and forgetfulness) at the 75% tier is likely to be a little too strong, I'd say merge them at the 50% tier, and for the 75% tier give a new subsys aff that makes subsys feedback ticks slightly faster for all subsystems (possibly make its effect better against non-mind subsys but still faster for mind too) which could help nanoseer push for breakdown.
    Nykara
  • NykaraNykara Member Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    Soza said:
    Steve said:
    5: I think Nykara's right about this one -- I agree.

    7: I like the sound of this affliction. 10% or 15% damage back on attacks, even if exclusive to nanoseer (which I'm not convinced it needs to be), would be a good thing for nanoseer and, therefore, a good change to the game. However, the ability might be better if the damage dealt isn't based on attack damage but based on balance spent. Every time you spend balance, the damage from the affliction is modified based on the balance time for that ability. Modify the damage based on a relevant stat, weapon power, etc.

    Mind stuff:
    • Disorientation staying the same makes sense to me, after further consideration and having had some trouble because of it in the new arenas.
    • Anything is better than current brainswelling.
    • Merging stupidity and forgetfulness as the 75% subsystem affliction seems like a good thing to do.
    • Confusion having a balance knock is a bit unimaginative, as RocketCat says (I think that's what's being referred to, anyway). Confusion could be replaced with one of the afflictions offered in lead number 11, such as recklessness. Alternatively, we could have something like an affliction version of recklessness, where there's "confusion" about what afflictions the character is suffering from: current, gained, and lost. If it's a lot like recklessness, it might look like losing information regarding afflictions (current, gained, lost). If it's more like confusion, the names might be swapped at random with other afflictions. If it's about afflictions, I think scoundrel and nanoseer would both be good candidates for it because there's randomness built into their kits for which afflictions are being dealt.
    Sensory stuff:
    • Perhaps making the big sensory affliction the inability to block movement would work, even if it's too much to give to blind.
    Internal stuff:
    • Increasing rejection's power is a good first step but we really need more power early on.
    • More discussion on this would be good. Internal's real weakness is its subsystem afflictions. More comments on whether the proposed solutions will do the job would be helpful.

    Merging the two, (Stupidity and forgetfulness) at the 75% tier is likely to be a little too strong, I'd say merge them at the 50% tier, and for the 75% tier give a new subsys aff that makes subsys feedback ticks slightly faster for all subsystems (possibly make its effect better against non-mind subsys but still faster for mind too) which could help nanoseer push for breakdown.

    After a bit of thinking and mathing, I don't THINK it will be a big issue if feedback into mind is unaffected - it'll be a while before that happens anyway. I'd propose 12->6 and 3->2 for the numbers (since it starts ticking fast sub-60)
    Soza
Sign In or Register to comment.