Remove INR loss from caches/allied areas

CubeyCubey Member Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
As the title suggests: just as the mark cost for dying in open pk or allied areas is severely reduced, so should the exp loss. As such I think we shouldn't leave INRs behind if we die in those.

Every cache I ran and died in is at least half an hour of mobbing to get my exp back. I don't have this kind of time - maybe for fun activities, but not for boring drudgework that serves no purpose other than to recoup my losses. Players shouldn't be punished just because they participated in an organized pvp event and died.
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Comments

  • NykaraNykara Member Posts: 108 ✭✭✭
    That would make at least two of the promo items/artifacts lose a large chunk of their value, which doesn't mean that I am saying don't do this, but I am saying that is something to consider. 
  • FlipilariaFlipilaria Member Posts: 114 ✭✭✭
    I don't think PVP should be risk-free, so I disagree.
    Soza
  • SozaSoza Member Posts: 97 ✭✭
    I think that pvp, should have risk to it in general otherwise it wouldn't be a contest, it would just be whoever has the most people online at the time wins most pvp events.
  • CubeyCubey Member Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    Why wouldn't it be a contest without risk? Plenty of risk-less contests exist in other MMOs and real life both - for me PvP is something like a sport, and you don't usually see a sports team having to pay a penalty for losing a game. The fact they lost (which means they might not progress in the championship, or win a cup, and so on - the equivalent of not getting crystals from a cache) is penalty enough, no need to add extra punishment atop of that.
  • RocketCatRocketCat Member Posts: 169 ✭✭✭
    I like hunting my INRs after caches. Lets me have interactions where I can pretend I care about them to justify more pk.
    Hi, I'm Ata. Oh and maybe some other people, too. o:) Check out my various packages for Nexus: Vuu combat system, Global Pathfinder, Slicer Tools, Ship compass, JS from command line, Vitals Tracker, and Equipment Manager.
    FlipilariaAzlynNykaraVega
  • JeromJerom Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    My two cents, keep dropping INR on death but remove the xp loss completely. Xp loss on death is an outdated concept and only discourages players from engaging in the kind of activities that involve combat. Removing xp loss would likely cause a surge in participation, something many of us are wishing. It would also allow newer players to experience the full game more quickly since everything is balanced around lvl 75.

    NykaraRylek
  • n1nj4n1nj4 Member Posts: 10
    I don't think this is a good idea. Perhaps making mindsim track inr give a room number would be a better idea? Lets get em back!
    Character: Necerursh
    Class: Fury
  • SairysSairys Member Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    Jerom said:
    My two cents, keep dropping INR on death but remove the xp loss completely. Xp loss on death is an outdated concept and only discourages players from engaging in the kind of activities that involve combat. Removing xp loss would likely cause a surge in participation, something many of us are wishing. It would also allow newer players to experience the full game more quickly since everything is balanced around lvl 75.

    Seconding this, not a PvPer but xp loss was a factor in my enthusiasm for the game being killed. Particularly with level based unlocks on some stuff.

    Something that comes to mind to do with INRs is like... a variation of shrine offering, maybe INRs have some form of value which factions want (corpses to essence elsewhere) and which can be turned into buffs or the like (shrine powers/buffs)?

    There's a "farming" consideration but you could try setting it up so collect enemy and your own INRs after death are good things rather than not doing it being a bad thing?
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  • SteveSteve Member Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    Jerom said:
    My two cents, keep dropping INR on death but remove the xp loss completely. Xp loss on death is an outdated concept and only discourages players from engaging in the kind of activities that involve combat. Removing xp loss would likely cause a surge in participation, something many of us are wishing. It would also allow newer players to experience the full game more quickly since everything is balanced around lvl 75.

    I disagree with the reasons you've given for approving this change, but I think the conclusion is right.

    This proposed change would make INRs as a dropped item pointless while allowing for powerleveling people by intentionally dying and then giving away the INRs. Assuming the staff balanced out the experience loss by removing the experience gain from INRs, what would the point of them dropping be?

    I also disagree that experience loss is an outdated mechanism. In Starmourn, you lose some experience for a death, and then you can go back and reclaim that lost experience. Recent, popular games such as Dark Souls feature such a mechanism. It doesn't discourage player participation in combat; it encourages prudent participation in combat.

    Getting to my point: INRs aren't the problem, but there probably should be another type of pvp combat that has nothing in it that would discourage lower level or less skilled players from participating. Personally, I'm rooting for sponsored blood sports. Let's get some of that space-age Jai Alai up in this business.



    RhindaraVega
  • SteveSteve Member Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    In the time since I posted this, I was reminded that we might be getting robot fighting. I am now rooting for sponsored robot fighting in which you can build your own bot and fight with the bots -- something more complicated than rock v. scissors, possibly with objectives and teamplay, but definitely with low bar of entry carnage. Perhaps there could be different classes of entrants tied to complexity of the bots...

    Ahem.
    Vega
  • RocketCatRocketCat Member Posts: 169 ✭✭✭
    Consider this post hijacked for battlebots.

    The Tentaclator will DESTROY all your measly non-tentacled bots.
    Hi, I'm Ata. Oh and maybe some other people, too. o:) Check out my various packages for Nexus: Vuu combat system, Global Pathfinder, Slicer Tools, Ship compass, JS from command line, Vitals Tracker, and Equipment Manager.
    Vega
  • JeromJerom Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    Steve said:
    Jerom said:
    My two cents, keep dropping INR on death but remove the xp loss completely. Xp loss on death is an outdated concept and only discourages players from engaging in the kind of activities that involve combat. Removing xp loss would likely cause a surge in participation, something many of us are wishing. It would also allow newer players to experience the full game more quickly since everything is balanced around lvl 75.

    I disagree with the reasons you've given for approving this change, but I think the conclusion is right.

    This proposed change would make INRs as a dropped item pointless while allowing for powerleveling people by intentionally dying and then giving away the INRs. Assuming the staff balanced out the experience loss by removing the experience gain from INRs, what would the point of them dropping be?

    I also disagree that experience loss is an outdated mechanism. In Starmourn, you lose some experience for a death, and then you can go back and reclaim that lost experience. Recent, popular games such as Dark Souls feature such a mechanism. It doesn't discourage player participation in combat; it encourages prudent participation in combat.

    Getting to my point: INRs aren't the problem, but there probably should be another type of pvp combat that has nothing in it that would discourage lower level or less skilled players from participating. Personally, I'm rooting for sponsored blood sports. Let's get some of that space-age Jai Alai up in this business.



    No, it wouldn't make INR pointless, they would be the reward for killing an enemy, I mean, they already are, my suggestion wouldn't change that. As for people using them for powerleveling, that's just a ridiculous statement. Nobody would just stand there and say to someone else to kill him over and over so they can gain 2%, especially now that there are basically no competition in hunting and questing since everyone is max level already. 
  • SairysSairys Member Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    Steve said:


    I also disagree that experience loss is an outdated mechanism. In Starmourn, you lose some experience for a death, and then you can go back and reclaim that lost experience. Recent, popular games such as Dark Souls feature such a mechanism. It doesn't discourage player participation in combat; it encourages prudent participation in combat.
    Dark Souls is not the most relevant example.
    Souls are closer to gold you drop on death than experience, which is also a thing here too. And PvP is kinda a joke there, don't want to deal with the loss? just make your internet connection drop when things are going badly.

    The more relevant comparisons would be MMOs which have overwhelmingly moved to alternative death punishments, if they have any at all.  
    On a quick look around, the only one I found from the past decade with xp loss was Archeage, which it apparently doesn't happen if you die to a player and dying in open world PvE also gives you a buff with your 1% xp loss (after stopping quickly to pray your xp back)
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  • VegaVega Member Posts: 72 ✭✭✭
    I don't think it makes sense to argue whether it does or doesn't make an actual difference until participation numbers are more equal. Since I feel like that makes the largest difference.
    Character: Vega
    Faction: Song Dominion
    Class: Engineer 

    note: I am always up for RP, antagonistic or friendly. If she's being a bitch, it's because you're from Scatterhome or she's trying to meet a deadline and has nothing to do with whether I want to RP with you or not. Thanks in advance for the RP!


  • SairysSairys Member Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    Vega said:
    I don't think it makes sense to argue whether it does or doesn't make an actual difference until participation numbers are more equal. Since I feel like that makes the largest difference.
    Participation numbers balancing out isn't something that's necessarily going to happen though.
    There's a bunch of factors that can contribute to that and one of them is "being on the winning side" (one of the ways it flips is when people get bored and want to be on the losing side then lead that side to winning heh)
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  • VegaVega Member Posts: 72 ✭✭✭
    I don't know, maybe because on average I do so many caches a day, I've been on both sides at least once a day.
    Character: Vega
    Faction: Song Dominion
    Class: Engineer 

    note: I am always up for RP, antagonistic or friendly. If she's being a bitch, it's because you're from Scatterhome or she's trying to meet a deadline and has nothing to do with whether I want to RP with you or not. Thanks in advance for the RP!


  • SteveSteve Member Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    Jerom said:
    No, it wouldn't make INR pointless, they would be the reward for killing an enemy, I mean, they already are, my suggestion wouldn't change that. As for people using them for powerleveling, that's just a ridiculous statement. Nobody would just stand there and say to someone else to kill him over and over so they can gain 2%, especially now that there are basically no competition in hunting and questing since everyone is max level already. 
    I disagree that it's a ridiculous statement. It doesn't take a two players to generate a death and the ensuing INR; all it takes is a room of mobs, using self-harm abilities, or misadventure (like blowing up explosive props or drinking the wrong thing). That would make bashing for marks considerably more profitable; die intentionally, grab the INR, bash for marks until experience is regained, repeat. Sell INRs (or even donate them to a faction mate). That's enough reason for some players and characters to abuse that system. Just as importantly, I know it would be true to one character's RP to do so, and I strongly suspect several others would do so as well for valid, pre-existing, and reasonable character RP (that isn't a desire for money). For example, Steve would happily find a way to destroy himself and sell his INR. As a side gig. Because HETE is evil.

    I also disagree that there's no demand for experience. I bet you we'd have more PVPers if we had more people at max level. And when the talent system comes out, the demand and availability of experience will sure look different from how they do today.

  • JeromJerom Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    The scenarios you described can already be achieved the way things are. Do you see them happening? I know I don't. 

    Also, I don't know how much you think an INR would sell for, but I think you're highly overestimating the amount. If you want marks, it's probably faster to do hard incursions than the way you suggest. But hey, feel free to have your character kill himself over and over to find out. Let us know how it turns out.
  • SairysSairys Member Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    edited January 10
    Vega said:
    I don't know, maybe because on average I do so many caches a day, I've been on both sides at least once a day.
    Sure, I've just seen mechanics being discussed along lines of "it'd be okay if things were equal" for years and years elsewhere, but that fabled day has still yet to come. 
    In the meantime, the mechanic can continue to promote disengagement and, in turn, get in the way of things becoming equal.


    edit: i.e if a mechanic/system/etc is okay in a situation which doesn't currently exist, it very likely needs changing.
    Avatar by berserkerelf!
  • VegaVega Member Posts: 72 ✭✭✭
    Sairys said:
    Vega said:
    I don't know, maybe because on average I do so many caches a day, I've been on both sides at least once a day.
    Sure, I've just seen mechanics being discussed along lines of "it'd be okay if things were equal" for years and years elsewhere, but that fabled day has still yet to come. 
    In the meantime, the mechanic can continue to promote disengagement and, in turn, get in the way of things becoming equal.


    edit: i.e if a mechanic/system/etc is okay in a situation which doesn't currently exist, it very likely needs changing.
    Fact of the matter is that no amount of 'free passes' will make people decide to engage in pvp if they weren't already. There will always be an excuse. Even in games where you don't take a loss for pvping, people do not flock out in mass numbers to suddenly do so. 

    The issue is that we currently do not have the ability to do arena team events or to spar crews as a form of practice so that people who don't know what they are doing, have a safe place to do just that. Therefore leaving risk based pvp to people who need that aspect to give a shit about it. 

    If we don't lose exp for focusing on objectives that promote and help establish a pecking order for Factions, then there is no point in having the faction pvp to begin with because just 'throwing bodies' at the problem then becomes the superior tactic. 

    If no one loses xp, there is no reason for Song to not bring ever person we have so they get used to calls and learn from it. XP loss on death is the only reason the numbers in there are low, as they should be. You're free to disagree with me, bot allowing there to be no risk or cost to factional pvp does nothing in the long term except make people who actually like pvp go elsewhere, and the people who are just planning to dabble, will sink a toe in and then stop participating once they get bored of the initial spark of newness. Just like Cosmpiercers, just like everything else.
    Character: Vega
    Faction: Song Dominion
    Class: Engineer 

    note: I am always up for RP, antagonistic or friendly. If she's being a bitch, it's because you're from Scatterhome or she's trying to meet a deadline and has nothing to do with whether I want to RP with you or not. Thanks in advance for the RP!


  • SteveSteve Member Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    Jerom said:
    The scenarios you described can already be achieved the way things are. Do you see them happening? I know I don't. 

    Also, I don't know how much you think an INR would sell for, but I think you're highly overestimating the amount. If you want marks, it's probably faster to do hard incursions than the way you suggest. But hey, feel free to have your character kill himself over and over to find out. Let us know how it turns out.
    The issue is that removing the costs of death entirely trivializes death, or incentivizes schemes to abuse no-cost death, or both. The original post is about removing barriers to caches, a group pvp environment so that more people can participate worry-free in dangerous pvp. Removing experience loss from death entirely, on the other hand, without removing the corresponding experience gain from scanning an INR creates an undeserved windfall to anyone who scans it. INRs, then, become experience gained for only some marks. If the death occurs in a cache, then the cost in marks of a level 75 player is under 200 marks (because the cost of death in a cache is reduced). If all it takes is a visit to HETE to generate, what, 3% experience for a leveling player without any genuine experience-generating activity, then that is a fundamentally flawed system. That is why I disagreed with your proposed remedy to the problem identified in the original post.

    I have made not made any "ridiculous statement."
    tark
  • SairysSairys Member Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    Vega said:
    Sairys said:
    Vega said:
    I don't know, maybe because on average I do so many caches a day, I've been on both sides at least once a day.
    Sure, I've just seen mechanics being discussed along lines of "it'd be okay if things were equal" for years and years elsewhere, but that fabled day has still yet to come. 
    In the meantime, the mechanic can continue to promote disengagement and, in turn, get in the way of things becoming equal.


    edit: i.e if a mechanic/system/etc is okay in a situation which doesn't currently exist, it very likely needs changing.
    Fact of the matter is that no amount of 'free passes' will make people decide to engage in pvp if they weren't already. There will always be an excuse. Even in games where you don't take a loss for pvping, people do not flock out in mass numbers to suddenly do so. 
    That's not a fact, it's an opinion. One that I understand is flawed given Lusternia's timequake mechanic saw investment from people who don't normally PvP because it included no exp loss on death.

    Vega said:


    The issue is that we currently do not have the ability to do arena team events or to spar crews as a form of practice so that people who don't know what they are doing, have a safe place to do just that. Therefore leaving risk based pvp to people who need that aspect to give a shit about it. 

    Arenas help sure, but as mentioned above, no exp loss on actual meaningful objectives appears to be shown to help more.

    Vega said:

    If we don't lose exp for focusing on objectives that promote and help establish a pecking order for Factions, then there is no point in having the faction pvp to begin with because just 'throwing bodies' at the problem then becomes the superior tactic. 

    If no one loses xp, there is no reason for Song to not bring ever person we have so they get used to calls and learn from it. XP loss on death is the only reason the numbers in there are low, as they should be. You're free to disagree with me, bot allowing there to be no risk or cost to factional pvp does nothing in the long term except make people who actually like pvp go elsewhere, and the people who are just planning to dabble, will sink a toe in and then stop participating once they get bored of the initial spark of newness. Just like Cosmpiercers, just like everything else.
    This is also flawed because it focuses on exp loss as the only mechanism to address these concerns.

    Death timers, for example, are another mechanism to address the "throwing bodies" tactic. (i.e each time you die in a pvp objective your cloning time gets increased for til the end of that objective.)

    It's not much of an issue if you have a couple of deaths but it slowly gets worse. If you go in a couple of times and don't succeed you haven't really lost anything other than the reward for winning.
    And if you just keep throwing yourself at an unwinnable battle you'll just end up with such a long timer that you can't come back in time to stop the other side winning.

    If the issue is large swarms, you can also look at addressing that on a pvp objective design level. A "hold the point" style map, for example, could have more and less valuable locations that are active simultaneously to split up the groups, you can add in a mechanism where a kill steals victory points (or w/e) which also would make people wary of bringing people that might feed the opposition.



    tl;dr Exp loss is one tool to resolve the concerns, there are alternatives which apparently other games feel work better. 
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  • VegaVega Member Posts: 72 ✭✭✭
    You do realize that if that aspect is only opinion, then that still makes the reverse an opinion. Since we have no data to prove long-term benefits to having no xp loss with pvp increasing the amount of pvpers you have.

    Death timers can be countered with heart-starting, and xp loss is the only reason heartstarting isn't constantly spammed. But if you want to turn pvp into a match of 'which faction has the most Engineers' which will end up with us being back on the forums arguing about how to get more people willing to go Engineer into other factions.

    Which at that point if we have no xp loss, does that not mean the only solution would be to not have heartstart work in pvp situations?  

    The issue is not actually large swarms, the issue is that not everyone should be participating in every type of pvp. And if we have ways for people to learn and transition in a no xp loss way, then they will use that to go into xp loss pvp, IF they are truly interested. 

    There is no reason to not increase practice locations for people who are considering sinking their toes into pvp. Because there are far more than 'xp loss' reasons for why people are not participating. They may highly dislike how some classes work. They might not like how their class feels in pvp. They might not the speed of the pvp. There is far more going on that discourages pvping than just xp. 

    Character: Vega
    Faction: Song Dominion
    Class: Engineer 

    note: I am always up for RP, antagonistic or friendly. If she's being a bitch, it's because you're from Scatterhome or she's trying to meet a deadline and has nothing to do with whether I want to RP with you or not. Thanks in advance for the RP!


  • WoodroWoodro Member Posts: 28 ✭✭
    Anything that involves a benefit should have a negative. This just a plain simple mechanic. Taking away exp lose is a step backwards towards faction vs faction content.

    We need arenas for parties and tournaments for prizes! Saturday night Starmourn pvp tournaments! Think outside the box. Regulating things just cause you don’t like it is not fair. Rather focus on creating something you would like! Cosmpiercer powers revolve around caches. Cosmpiercer powers are strong so effort dictates that reward.

    My two cents
    SteveMogarche
  • SairysSairys Member Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    Vega said:
    You do realize that if that aspect is only opinion, then that still makes the reverse an opinion. Since we have no data to prove long-term benefits to having no xp loss with pvp increasing the amount of pvpers you have.
    Sure, it's also an opinion but it comes from observations made by producers elsewhere that a new system without exp loss saw increased participation from people who don't normally pvp.
    A few months after this release there was also a change which enabled players to also buy immunity to xp loss on death.

    If you're also looking for data, there is similarly people citing xp loss as a factor their reticence to participate. 

    Vega said:
    Death timers can be countered with heart-starting, and xp loss is the only reason heartstarting isn't constantly spammed. But if you want to turn pvp into a match of 'which faction has the most Engineers' which will end up with us being back on the forums arguing about how to get more people willing to go Engineer into other factions.

    Which at that point if we have no xp loss, does that not mean the only solution would be to not have heartstart work in pvp situations?  
    The interaction between a death timer and heart-starting isn't actually known.

    You'd realistically look at a full outline of a system without exp-loss and determine what abilities are broken within that context, maybe heart-starting is too powerful so you disable it, maybe you build in some consequences for heart starting that make it more of a tactical tool than a spammed one.

    Vega said:
    The issue is not actually large swarms, the issue is that not everyone should be participating in every type of pvp. And if we have ways for people to learn and transition in a no xp loss way, then they will use that to go into xp loss pvp, IF they are truly interested. 
    Then you build your systems around your theory.

    Realistically though, that's also a significant and tricky time investment because, unless there's something to hold them back, the top tier PvPers are going to leap at opportunities to fight.

    Vega said:
    There is no reason to not increase practice locations for people who are considering sinking their toes into pvp. Because there are far more than 'xp loss' reasons for why people are not participating. They may highly dislike how some classes work. They might not like how their class feels in pvp. They might not the speed of the pvp. There is far more going on that discourages pvping than just xp. 

    These are also all things that can be worked on lol, nothing about removing exp loss means not working on classes or introducing arenas. It's just about doing something to address a concern people are saying is stopping them from diving into PvP.


    Also, to put it out there.
    Fundamentally, the difference between exp loss and other mechanisms such as death timers is that exp loss is a negative mechanism that one player gets to inflict on someone else, typically with far less work than the other player will need to put in to recover from it.
    Where a death timer or the like is a mechanism aimed at ensuring the "better" side wins by making it harder for the other side to recover from their losses, but you don't really lose anything other than your time and any consumables you used.
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  • SairysSairys Member Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    Woodro said:
    Anything that involves a benefit should have a negative. This just a plain simple mechanic. Taking away exp lose is a step backwards towards faction vs faction content.

    We need arenas for parties and tournaments for prizes! Saturday night Starmourn pvp tournaments! Think outside the box. Regulating things just cause you don’t like it is not fair. Rather focus on creating something you would like! Cosmpiercer powers revolve around caches. Cosmpiercer powers are strong so effort dictates that reward.

    My two cents
    The negative for losing in objective pvp is that you don't get the reward for winning. People will still want to participate where there are rewards to be gained and just for the feeling of winning.

    Also, in other games the difference between winning and losing mostly boils down to winning is more rewarding while losing is less rewarding.
    GW2, FFXIV, Overwatch, and Destiny 2 all immediately come to mind. There's mechanical progress and/or currency rewards that you get just for participating it's just the winners get, often a lot, more.
    Avatar by berserkerelf!
  • VegaVega Member Posts: 72 ✭✭✭
    @Sairys link the numbers and data then please, since I have not seen this list/report. 
    Character: Vega
    Faction: Song Dominion
    Class: Engineer 

    note: I am always up for RP, antagonistic or friendly. If she's being a bitch, it's because you're from Scatterhome or she's trying to meet a deadline and has nothing to do with whether I want to RP with you or not. Thanks in advance for the RP!


  • SairysSairys Member Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    edited January 10
    Vega said:
    @Sairys link the numbers and data then please, since I have not seen this list/report. 
    Sure, when you provide something similar to back up your stance.

    edit: Or maybe even a modern successful MMO that does things the way you think works best?
    Avatar by berserkerelf!
  • tarktark Member Posts: 14
    edited January 10
    I mean, you're the one going on about having producer observations as fact on your side. I'd imagine there's a log/forum post/something out there that would turn this into something more than "Show me yours" "No u"
    I play Cervantes. Approach me for RP IF YOU DARE. Just kidding. I love RP. Please approach me!
  • VegaVega Member Posts: 72 ✭✭✭
    Sairys said:
    Vega said:
    @Sairys link the numbers and data then please, since I have not seen this list/report. 
    Sure, when you provide something similar to back up your stance.

    edit: Or maybe even a modern successful MMO that does things the way you think works best?
    I did agree that my point was opinion based on my observations on how all changes in SM have impacted population and pvp participation. Back when Heartstart brought you back at full health, people were more than happy to take the blow. 

    I also pointed out the changes to Cosmpiercers and even making them more accessible did not increase participation numbers, it did decrease some complaints, but either way the core people participating in pvp did not change. 

    An example of an mmo where you didn't lose xp or death or items would be Tera Online where they PREVIOUSLY had open world pvp and you could pvp as long as you were level 1. The pvp servers were extremely active, and I played on them from launch. And then came the pvp nerfs because the pve servers were dying off and people wanted to be on the pvp servers but not get ganked when they were newbies. So they then changed it so that you had to be level 10 first. Fast forward over a few years later when I come to check back in after they stopped us from being able to pvp in cities during guild wars, and you can't open world pvp until end game ON the PVP servers. Needless to say, no one plays Tera for pvp anymore, at least not seriously and gvgs mean nothing. 

    Making pvp less competitive kills most incentive to even bother, and players who like pvp will then move to a different game. 

    So please, since the information on MUDs doing the no xp loss increased numbers helped so much, please give me some examples, and link a producer actually saying that.
    Character: Vega
    Faction: Song Dominion
    Class: Engineer 

    note: I am always up for RP, antagonistic or friendly. If she's being a bitch, it's because you're from Scatterhome or she's trying to meet a deadline and has nothing to do with whether I want to RP with you or not. Thanks in advance for the RP!


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