I find a happy middle ground. I’ll code in some defensive scripts for particular do or die situations such as to help countering a chanelled big hitter or making sure certain defenses are active like contingency, roof blown off if needed. But as for the bashing, I’ll set my targets with the tilde key and use fkeys for my skills.
@tysandr just to expand on what you are saying, which I dont really disagree with, in SM you have more options than just health pool since we have the stat point system.
Also, and what should be a major goal for hitting 75, we have a level based gearing system. That, along with stat point allocation makes 75 a necessity for any “land” based PvP.
To put it in perspective, there was someone on Reynolds one time that attacked me with some nanoseer voodoo and because they were 15 levels below me, I was able to blow them up in one ripper, a rapidfire and a crackshot. So level matters even more for PvP here than in other IRE games.
I need to add some sounds, don’t know why I didn’t think of that. The amount of times I’m trying to hold my rotation and my consciousness while bashing early hours I forget to watch my health lol
@jericho like others have mentioned, building my own system from the ground up is a big motivation for me. I play B.E.A.S.T. too. My current "system" (if you can even call it that) is a toddler's crayon drawing compared to Montem's, but its simplicity might make it a little easier for complete newcomers to understand.
I don't at all mind sharing what I've put together if you (or anybody else!) want to take a look. It might help you see that it's easier than you thought and encourage you to keep expanding it on your own. Just a simple basher and limb tracker for now, but it's as good a place to start as any.
Send a message to Seth in game or Squeakums in discord if you want.
Hey man, @Squeakums complexity aint shit. It's all about whether or not you get satisfaction from what you have. I'm right along side you, I get a lot of pleasure out of scripting and building all my own stuff.
Not gonna lie I lost it at the attempt to compare a text game to something like overwatch or wow. When you're comparing something you should make sure they're actually similar games. "It's my opinion." Isn't a very good retort. Opinions are there to be criticised. If you don't like criticism then don't give your opinion to a public forum.
Not gonna lie I lost it at the attempt to compare a text game to something like overwatch or wow. When you're comparing something you should make sure they're actually similar games. "It's my opinion." Isn't a very good retort. Opinions are there to be criticised. If you don't like criticism then don't give your opinion to a public forum.
Going back on my bowing out because you have a tendency to twist people's words. Not sure where you got the idea that I care about criticism. I stated or implied multuple times you have the right to do so.
Again, I am fine with being in the minority. I will continue to break games down to a series of button pushes to accomplish a goal because that is, in essence, what it is.
My opinion is that I don't think it is right to turn the game into an idle tapper. Is it within the rules? Sure. Do I think it helps the game in the long run? Nope. Do I care if people question my intelligence because my opinion is different than theirs? Well, they look like the asshole, not me.
People choosing to play a single aspect of the game differently to you, definitely hurts the game. At least half your posts in this thread seem contrary to your whole "It's okay if people disagree with me." mindset.
Also breaking it down to button pushes is vastly simplifying it, in order to try and make you seem right and try to eliminate any form of discussion on the matter. Fuck off with that. With that kind of logic you could say shooting someone for staring at you, is the same as asking them to stop staring at you, because both situations result in them no longer staring at you. You must've spent a little too much time with Wuff.
I hit 75 last night, what I did was make a basher that allowed me to do the moving then hit f1 and let it repeat my attacks until it killed everything. Then I move to another room, hit the button and on and on. Lets you watch movies or binge TV shows while you bash, and also keeps things within the automation rules. I highly recommend setting something up like it. You can even put in pings that will tell you when something dies, or when your health drops to a certain percent. Whatever you need to do to grab your attention when it is needed.
This is what I do too, apparently the player formed bot-police decided I was botting, so anyone who does this watch out because there are some players that don't like you bashing better than them. On the plus side, I got confirmation that auto attacking is not botting, so the bot-police can choke on it.
It isn't botting but the danger is in that you will be paying so little attention that someone sending you a tell or talking to you is something you might not see, at which point they may conclude that you are botting and issue you. But at pointed out, can be aleviated by pings, and if you can respond to those you are indeed not botting. What would be botting is having an autowalker do the walking and go make dinner.
Also for the sake of courtesy, you may want to make it so that your basher does not attack things when someone else is already in the room, they could just be hanging out there or passing through, but if they are fighting and you jump in it could create the illusion that you are a bot who doesn't give a damn. There are technically no rules on this, and the game does share XP and loot, but personally I skip when someone else was there before me since I consider it polite. It's also what I see most people do. But I dunno if this still happens or if this is feasible in the higher level areas.
Noticing a tell shouldn't be an issue. Everyone who has a basher likely has a tabbed chat.
Personally, I don't play this game to chat OOCly to people outside of the occasional bouts that happens on Song's combat clan. If Maruna doesn't know you ICly it's very unlikely that I'm going to respond to tells from you when I'm bashing. Especially if they're of an OOC nature such as trying to see if I'm 'botting' or not.
If you suspect someone's botting, issue it with evidence as to why and let the admin take care of it. It's what you're supposed to do; I've had three people so far openly come out with "Are you botting?" or something to that effect. I just immediately IGNORE those kinda people, because they're not the ones I want to interact with anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You do know you can download one of these systems too, right?
Gaming isn't, and shouldn't be, about how much of an unpleasant thing you can put up with. It's meant to be enjoyable, so if you have a tool available to you that can make something more enjoyable, it makes sense that people are going to use it.
Gaming is about accomplishing goals using skill and ability built up through the grind of practice. It is telling of a society filled with participation trophies that you want to skip the shitty parts straight to the reward.
I know I will catch flak for this opinion, still give no shits about the personal attacks on my intelligence. Not going to return fire.
I will say that touting your place at max level idle tapping seems a bit weak to me. Yes, I feel it is more of an accomplishment to have tapped multiple keys per kill. I also feel it js an unfair advantage to use those systems but I accept that they are allowed.
Aaaand there comes the baby boomer bullshit. Are you really claiming a moral high ground based on your ability to press a button on the keyboard over and over again?
How is this any different than WoW or Overwatch or any number of other games? You press buttons over and over to accomplish a goal in all of those. I admire the skill that comes from the hours of practice the best in the world have to go through. I am allowed to do so here.
I think there's just a vast difference in what you see as "skill" or "accomplishment." Bashing doesn't really require skill, and obtaining a high level isn't really an achievement to me; it's a requirement. I'd much prefer the game if level wasn't a thing at all, but I like the mechanics of IRE games enough that I'm willing to spend the grind time to be able to play the game. To me, the game pretty much starts when I get to a high enough level to really engage in pk. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.
I'm not going to be impressed with myself when I get level 75, or with anyone else who gets 75, automated or not. Time sink simply isn't impressive.
I'm going to work on pk, learn to pwn all the peoples (hopefully), and that's where the actual skill and accomplishment comes in.
Fucking lol at people priding themselves on being able to press a button over and over on the way to max-level - and shitting on people who figured out they have better things to do. As if grinding required any actual skill, talent or ingenuity. It's monotony, pure and simple. It's a repetitive task.
I wouldn't have picked this to ride anyone for, except this is the hill some people in this thread have chosen to die on. This is what makes you feel superior to others? This is the accomplishment you want to brag about and shame others for? Are your real life accomplishments so few that you derive your sense of superiority from being able to mindlessly press a button harder and faster and longer?
These accusations of 'entitlement' and 'snowflakery' are hogwash. This is a game. It's a hobby. You do not get paid for it, and you're not volunteering your time to a noble cause. There are no gold medals waiting for you when you win. It's for fun. Starmourn is what you make of it. Don't let anyone tell you how you can and can't have fun here. Work at work - and faff around every other chance you get, because lord knows being an adult is dreary enough, and we could all be dead tomorrow.
"They are elect to whom beautiful things mean only Beauty." — Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before." — Margaret Atwood
@Minei - I am aware of what is and is not botting, hence I do not bot. I also don't respond to tells that are obviously ooc in nature and/or from idiots, but at the very least if someone sent me a tell to see if I was botting, and I ignored it, I could say it was on me that I got accused of it. Issuing people without even trying to see if they are botting though is on them. Witch hunting everyone who bashes better/faster/stronger than you is the current fad in Starmourn.
I also don't bash rooms with other players in them, because I can code, and I know how to use GMCP to see if there are players there before I attack a mob.
People choosing to play a single aspect of the game differently to you, definitely hurts the game. At least half your posts in this thread seem contrary to your whole "It's okay if people disagree with me." mindset.
Your first line in this quote, is exactly what you're accusing me of in your first line below. I've given my reasons for why I believe it to be an advantage to those who use it and why it would be detrimental to the game.
I've also specifically said that people are free to disagree but what I try to (and am apparently failing at) give no shits about is people attacking my intelligence implicitly or specifically. This happened multiple times rather than responding respectfully to my argument. I've even admitted that I respect what coders are able to do with code because I am not able to. So yes, I specifically give you permission to disagree with your own opinion and supporting arguments with no qualms. I don't appreciate my opinion being reduced to a series of logical fallacies that make you look better and me like an idiot.
Also breaking it down to button pushes is vastly simplifying it, in order to try and make you seem right and try to eliminate any form of discussion on the matter. Fuck off with that. With that kind of logic you could say shooting someone for staring at you, is the same as asking them to stop staring at you, because both situations result in them no longer staring at you. You must've spent a little too much time with Wuff.
You not only use a straw man argument, an irrelevant conclusion and killing the messenger logical fallacies in one paragraph, you attack someone not even associated with the argument between us. I guess it's become cool or cute to argue this way but it doesn't accomplish anything useful. However, it does accomplish hurting my pride so, well done with that.
Sorry, my pride won't let me walk away from this. It's way off topic but I don't think many people enjoy having their argument lumped into broad, negative generalizations by Anyone*.
EDIT: Sorry, not just one person generalizing, multiple. My bad.
EDIT TO ADD: Also, I apologize. I did lump a text game into the same boat as WoW or Overwatch. I realize that they're not the same thing. I acknowledge that there is a challenge to creating a functioning system to operate at peak efficiency in a game like this and that when it is within the rules, it's allowed. I do accept that.
That said, the concept that I'm trying to get across is the certainly the same in my opinion. There is a human endurance aspect to sitting there in the tedium that I do respect because I don't have the time or patience to do so. If you disagree, fine. I do hope that we can agree to disagree that what we value is different and neither is lesser. That's not what I get from this community though. There is a tendency to attack the person rather than the ideal.
There is so much more to IRE games than level achievement. Oddly enough, Starmourn is different in that a fair chunk of it is gated behind max level, and it is a max level that is simultaneously difficult to get.
I've seen people say they love the PvE experience here. That it is better than other IRE games. I disagree. Pressing 3-4 buttons in the same rotation over and over is no different, no more challenging, and no more enjoyable than pressing one button.
In Aetolia I can fear my target (makes it run away for a while). My targets can be almost too much to handle, but with the use of fear to break up roaming packs of aggressive mobs I can take them. They aren't the most efficient targets to gain exp from, but the experience is an actual challenge. It's one extra button that I might not even have to press - but when I do it is strategical and more enjoyable than F2, F3, F1, F1, F1, F1. rest, repeat.
So far in Starmourn, and I've barely scratched the surface content-wise so I am hopeful it will change as I explore more, I haven't found a single boss mob. No epic area quests - where's something like the beastlord quest (example of a lowbie area boss+quest from Achaea/Aetolia). Where's something like Ati in Aetolia?
I'm not criticising dev team here. As I said, I haven't scratched the surface of the content here (so there may be areas, quests and mobs just like that which I am unaware of), and it's early days in the game anyway. Plenty of time for fleshing out the zones after the game is balanced better.
I'm just saying: if the PvE experience is lackluster, of course people want to skim through it as quickly as possible.
I personally find the PvE more engaging than in Aetolia (one button offense, yawn), or in Achaea (one button offense, sprinkled by supplementary effects that are on heavy cooldown or irrelevant, that has interesting synergy potential but that no one uses).
Here, I can give a wide selection of afflictions to mobs, use all my attacks, even use my instakills, to help punch above my weight and freshen things up when it gets slow. And of course, the synergy is built in too.
I personally find the PvE more engaging than in Aetolia (one button offense, yawn), or in Achaea (one button offense, sprinkled by supplementary effects that are on heavy cooldown or irrelevant, that has interesting synergy potential but that no one uses).
Here, I can give a wide selection of afflictions to mobs, use all my attacks, even use my instakills, to help punch above my weight and freshen things up when it gets slow. And of course, the synergy is built in too.
I agreed with you from 1-12 when there wasn't much difference between abilities. I did a lot of testing of different combos and was enjoying it. Now though, nothing I can try on my BEAST is remotely close to backhand/wristblade.
And on my engineer, no amount of experimenting with sear, tasers, shrapnel etc outpaces straight clawing. Maybe on a target that takes a long time to die, sear at the perfect time could net me a kill a single round earlier. I haven't found a mob yet that lives long enough to use a finishing move effectively.
So now... it's just the same as Aetolia. 1 opening move, then mash 1 damage button. Except in Aetolia I can find mobs that are too difficult and use strategical fear attacks to take on a bunch of them. Still not fantastic, but at least there is SOME thought involved.
And perhaps that will change as I get to higher levels and try new areas. I hope. Or maybe it is my class choices - maybe I should be nanoseer. Perhaps I'd have more fun bashing in a group, who knows? That's been my experience anyway.
When Engineers got the ability to use turrets against mobs I switched, planned to level 30-35 before deciding to use my last class change to go back to Nanoseer or not. I switched back 30 minutes later. I realize Nanoseer isn't optimal at all, but I think it's fun to hunt as, which is more important to me. There's a lot more variation. Generally I speedup, pointzero, multistrike, freeze3x, swarm to death (reapply freeze if necessary). Some things are su, pz, suffocate - if that's the case I either freeze once, twice or go straight to swarm. Every now and then I go up against something big and swap conqueror to frenzy after pz. But I'm weird I guess because for me, enjoying 'seer, it's not entirely or even mostly about getting levels for extra health or lessons or xp ranking. I'm mainly hunting simply because I want to.
Maybe Engineers and Beasts have it boring, but I'm liking the small variety I have between using regular ammo and weaken ammo and pushing for the instant kill and timing unloads on things. In which case, sorry for your loss.
I always find it funny when people say grinding is some easy thing not worthy of any respect and yet they will never devote the time to reach max level. Reminds me of people that I ran into on WoW that would tell me how easy raiding is, and they never raided.
Though I waited a while before I used any kind of scripting I can understand why people eventually end up doing it. The grind is pretty long and mindless so naturally people want to do as much as they can to make it easier while still staying within the rules.
Experience costs thus far have been pretty reasonable, and as long as I hunt within level, I can pull a level in about 1-2 hours. I wonder if there are any MASSIVE JUMPS like how the 80s are typically hell levels in other IREs... or if there will be in the future.
I was asking why you consider the BEAST class Hitler. Not why the joke is funny. I've heard people say BEAST is overpowered for bashing or something
I didn't say BEAST. I said people playing it... The reasons for that, is why the joke is funny. There's a reason only part of Dorc's post was used, and that part in particular.
Comments
I don't at all mind sharing what I've put together if you (or anybody else!) want to take a look. It might help you see that it's easier than you thought and encourage you to keep expanding it on your own. Just a simple basher and limb tracker for now, but it's as good a place to start as any.
Send a message to Seth in game or Squeakums in discord if you want.
"It's my opinion." Isn't a very good retort. Opinions are there to be criticised. If you don't like criticism then don't give your opinion to a public forum.
Again, I am fine with being in the minority. I will continue to break games down to a series of button pushes to accomplish a goal because that is, in essence, what it is.
My opinion is that I don't think it is right to turn the game into an idle tapper. Is it within the rules? Sure. Do I think it helps the game in the long run? Nope. Do I care if people question my intelligence because my opinion is different than theirs? Well, they look like the asshole, not me.
For reals though, I am done.
I'm not going to be impressed with myself when I get level 75, or with anyone else who gets 75, automated or not. Time sink simply isn't impressive.
I'm going to work on pk, learn to pwn all the peoples (hopefully), and that's where the actual skill and accomplishment comes in.
I wouldn't have picked this to ride anyone for, except this is the hill some people in this thread have chosen to die on. This is what makes you feel superior to others? This is the accomplishment you want to brag about and shame others for? Are your real life accomplishments so few that you derive your sense of superiority from being able to mindlessly press a button harder and faster and longer?
These accusations of 'entitlement' and 'snowflakery' are hogwash. This is a game. It's a hobby. You do not get paid for it, and you're not volunteering your time to a noble cause. There are no gold medals waiting for you when you win. It's for fun. Starmourn is what you make of it. Don't let anyone tell you how you can and can't have fun here. Work at work - and faff around every other chance you get, because lord knows being an adult is dreary enough, and we could all be dead tomorrow.
— Oscar Wilde
"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before."
— Margaret Atwood
I also don't bash rooms with other players in them, because I can code, and I know how to use GMCP to see if there are players there before I attack a mob.
Lol why?
EDIT: Sorry, not just one person generalizing, multiple. My bad.
EDIT TO ADD: Also, I apologize. I did lump a text game into the same boat as WoW or Overwatch. I realize that they're not the same thing. I acknowledge that there is a challenge to creating a functioning system to operate at peak efficiency in a game like this and that when it is within the rules, it's allowed. I do accept that.
That said, the concept that I'm trying to get across is the certainly the same in my opinion. There is a human endurance aspect to sitting there in the tedium that I do respect because I don't have the time or patience to do so. If you disagree, fine. I do hope that we can agree to disagree that what we value is different and neither is lesser. That's not what I get from this community though. There is a tendency to attack the person rather than the ideal.
Oddly enough, Starmourn is different in that a fair chunk of it is gated behind max level, and it is a max level that is simultaneously difficult to get.
I've seen people say they love the PvE experience here. That it is better than other IRE games. I disagree. Pressing 3-4 buttons in the same rotation over and over is no different, no more challenging, and no more enjoyable than pressing one button.
In Aetolia I can fear my target (makes it run away for a while). My targets can be almost too much to handle, but with the use of fear to break up roaming packs of aggressive mobs I can take them. They aren't the most efficient targets to gain exp from, but the experience is an actual challenge. It's one extra button that I might not even have to press - but when I do it is strategical and more enjoyable than F2, F3, F1, F1, F1, F1. rest, repeat.
So far in Starmourn, and I've barely scratched the surface content-wise so I am hopeful it will change as I explore more, I haven't found a single boss mob. No epic area quests - where's something like the beastlord quest (example of a lowbie area boss+quest from Achaea/Aetolia). Where's something like Ati in Aetolia?
I'm not criticising dev team here. As I said, I haven't scratched the surface of the content here (so there may be areas, quests and mobs just like that which I am unaware of), and it's early days in the game anyway. Plenty of time for fleshing out the zones after the game is balanced better.
I'm just saying: if the PvE experience is lackluster, of course people want to skim through it as quickly as possible.
I personally find the PvE more engaging than in Aetolia (one button offense, yawn), or in Achaea (one button offense, sprinkled by supplementary effects that are on heavy cooldown or irrelevant, that has interesting synergy potential but that no one uses).
Here, I can give a wide selection of afflictions to mobs, use all my attacks, even use my instakills, to help punch above my weight and freshen things up when it gets slow. And of course, the synergy is built in too.
I was asking why you consider the BEAST class Hitler. Not why the joke is funny. I've heard people say BEAST is overpowered for bashing or something
And on my engineer, no amount of experimenting with sear, tasers, shrapnel etc outpaces straight clawing. Maybe on a target that takes a long time to die, sear at the perfect time could net me a kill a single round earlier. I haven't found a mob yet that lives long enough to use a finishing move effectively.
So now... it's just the same as Aetolia. 1 opening move, then mash 1 damage button. Except in Aetolia I can find mobs that are too difficult and use strategical fear attacks to take on a bunch of them. Still not fantastic, but at least there is SOME thought involved.
And perhaps that will change as I get to higher levels and try new areas. I hope. Or maybe it is my class choices - maybe I should be nanoseer. Perhaps I'd have more fun bashing in a group, who knows? That's been my experience anyway.
I didn't say BEAST. I said people playing it... The reasons for that, is why the joke is funny. There's a reason only part of Dorc's post was used, and that part in particular.
Faster/better/stronger was a thing used by Hitler to describe his magical aryan super race.
- Ilyos (August 2019)