Big yikes at the anti-grind update

GrinGrin Member Posts: 13
I've been enjoying Starmourn so far! Great game, fun community. But as a minmaxing grind-junkie nightmare player I'm eagerly anticipating whatever tweaks (reverts I hope) are in store regarding this latest update. The grind was already, well, a grind! 

At level 50+, getting <0.8% per kill every 18 seconds or so on enemies in an area advertised as being in my range I was already boring. Getting 0.2% from killing mobs in the level bracket below it every 12 seconds is utterly mind-numbing. Those times don't factor in the time it costs to craft IEDs and heal between fights, either, and with the update in effect, I can't actually hunt the level 50-60 area because the beasties there suddenly have upwards of 60% damage resistance. And I'm squishy as heck.

As a Scoundrel, I'm yet to really appreciate any of the afflictions in PVE other than the standard DOTs, of which my class seems to have just one or two tucked behind a hefty lesson gate (GUNSLINGING WEAKENING (833 lessons) and IMPROVISATION SHRAPNEL (1207 lessons)). I'm only trans in one skill so far - gunslinging, and I don't have the lessons to see if the 8 second net balance cost of creating shrapnel bombs is worth it for a stack of bleed. Setting up for PUMMEL is a pain because you need to TRIP and BIND enemies, with both attacks dealing no damage and often having the bind shrugged off in a second or two, and even then pummel is an interruptable channel. FORCEFEED requires the same setup, with the added requirement of your target needing <=50% system damage. Neither option is particularly viable for PVE combos because lower leveled enemies die long before taking the required system damage, and higher leveled enemies just curbstomp a squishy scoundrel long before they're prepped.

The higher I level the more I recognise how levels are an enormous advantage in foot PVP with how weapon/armour power and stats per level scale up, and that makes me want even more to get leveled and geared up for that endgame content before I delve into PVP. This latest patch has slapped a towering nanosteel gate across any semblance of a comfortable advancement experience. It feels like an element of artificial difficulty that's going to really dissuade new players from bothering to get to a competitive level in PVP further down the track. 

It's also going to encourage powerlevelling later, because high-leveled players can just drag low-leveled players around while they kill everything. 

Now I'd be an ass to gripe and not offer anything constructive so here's my suggestions:
1) Expand the threshold for when damage reduction comes into effect. A level 50+ player ought to be able to hunt effectively in a level 50-60 zone.
2) Add more affliction combo alternatives!
3) Crank up XP gains for killing enemies close to your level?

I hope this doesn't come across as too scathing a criticism! I know the game's in beta. I'm sure this will be tweaked and prodded back to a balanced state. 

Anyway I'm probably gonna go back to a much lower leveled area and see if carpet bombing it with AOEs is going to be any more rewarding than the slog I'm stuck in now. Apologies to anyone caught in the crossfires!

PS: I thought the lowbie 12-man hunting platoons looked like great fun. Make that viable again so we get to watch them all get squashed by AOEs pls.

Comments

  • GrinGrin Member Posts: 13
    Tecton said:
    I just widened the window by a decent margin, which should alleviate some of the problems, and we're constantly monitoring it!

    Improvements already! BACK TO MY SPOT I GO
    Archer
  • ScorpiaScorpia Member Posts: 13
    I do hope that we keep at a reasonable grind level rather than the horrific vertical slopes of XP requirements in other IREs. I mean, I've got thousands of hours in Disgaea games across all the series, and even I think the grind to endgame in any of the IRE games I've played is just too much work for too little reward.
    Pumkin
  • StarFiryStarFiry Member Posts: 32
    edited December 2018
    Well, I second the OP. As level 25ish, I went to an area recommended for 20-30 (nightstalkers) and.... died.... then watched others in low 20 die multiple times. Came up with a strategy to take them stalkers down, which took a looooong time, borderline dying and hoping another one of the stalkers does not show up. And all for what? A whole 1.8-2% gain for a 3ish minute fight? Why? Makes no sense. Another forum Good Samaritan recommended something else, where same experience can be gained in half the time in return for mind numbing. What gives. 
  • bairlochbairloch Member Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    I think I'm at 9? I'll let you know what I think of the 50 "grind" in a year or so.
    AebruaRoninIllidaen
  • ShinonomeShinonome Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    level 65+ zone I was in completely cleared out. No one here at all now. I can't kill stuff here at all now. I'm not sure the "window" thing is really fixed.

    ...but even if it does, that doesn't really help engineer when it got personally nerfed so hard... but I'd expected to see non-engineers here, at least...
  • SagexSagex Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    Shinonome said:
    level 65+ zone I was in completely cleared out. No one here at all now. I can't kill stuff here at all now. I'm not sure the "window" thing is really fixed.

    ...but even if it does, that doesn't really help engineer when it got personally nerfed so hard... but I'd expected to see non-engineers here, at least...
    both level 50-60 areas as a level 50 i can't hunt and the grind was broken because of how many people got to 60+ but now it's going to slow down and hurt the  other 200 people 
  • SyltSylt Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited December 2018
    I understand that the changes were to mitigate huge groups constantly clearing areas and making bank, but this feels like a huge punishment for those who were in groups of what, two? To handle the already steep grind. I cannot say I enjoy the changes, now, though, and I sit here wondering exactly what I want to do within Starmourn when bashing feels like I'm now... Bashing my head against a wall.

    Instead, in my opinion, the change should have been more along the lines of:

    - Diminishing returns the more players in the room/crew
    - Less damage the more players in the room/crew
    - Higher NPC resistances with the more players in the room/crew

    As it is now, as someone who is usually a solo or duo basher, this feels fairly obnoxious.
    JoscelinAebrua
  • TectonTecton Administrator Posts: 686 Starmourn staff
    This likely won't be the final implementation, by any means, but for now it solves the most egregious issues before too much damage was done. We'll continue to refine the solution to more elegantly resolve the issues, while still allowing the social/teamwork elements of bashing as a group.
    ZilHalcyonArcherGrin
  • DPierreDPierre Member Posts: 24
    What I want is more quality over quantity, which I thought is what I would be getting from Starmourn and the combat system. 

    The huge problem is that direct HP damage is too common. Everything and EVeryone should have increased HP and/or reduced direct HP damage. THEN, more emphasis put into the myriad of awesome afflictions and combos with them to dispatch someone. Death by direct HP loss should be extremely rare. This should also be for NPCs as well. It should take much longer to kill NPCs, BUT the rewards should be increased per kill. That way, there's less of the GRINDY feel AND places are less likely to be overpopulated because there will be enough for everyone. 

    The reliance on HP damage is so bad that the only stat really worth spending points in is LIFEFORCE and some in regen. That's bad. 

    There should also be "minion" NPC mobs who's whole point is to be destroyed easily, just to make use of AOE skills.

    TLDR, more quality over quantity. Majorly reduce direct HP damage. Slow down fights so that we can actually have fun with combos/finishers/afflications.
    JoscelinStarFirySqueakums
  • GarrynGarryn Administrator Posts: 61 Starmourn staff

    DPierre said:
    TLDR, more quality over quantity. Majorly reduce direct HP damage. Slow down fights so that we can actually have fun with combos/finishers/afflications.
    Yeah, definitely something that we'll be improving.
    DPierreSqueakumsPoetKix
  • BeepBoopBeepBoop Member Posts: 69 ✭✭
    I honestly think that for pvp people are just dying to damage because most people who have pked are still relative lowbies. I think we'll see a lot more of the instakills once we get more people getting closer to endgame.
    JoscelinAzlyn
  • JoscelinJoscelin Member Posts: 45
    BeepBoop said:
    I honestly think that for pvp people are just dying to damage because most people who have pked are still relative lowbies. I think we'll see a lot more of the instakills once we get more people getting closer to endgame.

    Yeah. If this is anything like other IRE games, most damage attacks deal a base amount plus a percentage of max damage, making them much more deadly against relatively low levels than they are at higher ones. Especially if we add any kind of tankiness via artifacts, damage just isn't really a thing 1v1 in the IRE games that I've seen; even damage kills usually involve disabling your opponent from being able to hinder you or heal out of the danger zone.
  • OlyvarOlyvar Member Posts: 18
    Playing catch up since I’ve been out of touch a bit for the holidays. Is this a flat change or a on a curve impacting those who leveled quickly?

    just thinking what my catch up is going to be like to be relevant in PVP when I can play again soon. Either way doesn’t matter, just preparing :-P

    Hope everyone celebrating this week has a great time. 
    Joscelin
  • ShinonomeShinonome Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    Joscelin said:
    BeepBoop said:
    I honestly think that for pvp people are just dying to damage because most people who have pked are still relative lowbies. I think we'll see a lot more of the instakills once we get more people getting closer to endgame.

    Yeah. If this is anything like other IRE games, most damage attacks deal a base amount plus a percentage of max damage, making them much more deadly against relatively low levels than they are at higher ones. Especially if we add any kind of tankiness via artifacts, damage just isn't really a thing 1v1 in the IRE games that I've seen; even damage kills usually involve disabling your opponent from being able to hinder you or heal out of the danger zone.
    So far, damage here is pretty high. And you can't heal health and afflictions at the same time, you have to choose one or the other.

    Damage kills might be much more prevalent here...
    Joscelin
  • CubeyCubey Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    Olyvar said:
    Playing catch up since I’ve been out of touch a bit for the holidays. Is this a flat change or a on a curve impacting those who leveled quickly?

    just thinking what my catch up is going to be like to be relevant in PVP when I can play again soon. Either way doesn’t matter, just preparing :-P

    Hope everyone celebrating this week has a great time. 
    It impacts zerg rushes of lowbies who teamed up to powerlevel high level zones or take out cosmpiercers. If you're playing solo you're unaffected. Overall, a change for the better!
    DPierre
  • JoscelinJoscelin Member Posts: 45
    Shinonome said:
    Joscelin said:
    BeepBoop said:
    I honestly think that for pvp people are just dying to damage because most people who have pked are still relative lowbies. I think we'll see a lot more of the instakills once we get more people getting closer to endgame.

    Yeah. If this is anything like other IRE games, most damage attacks deal a base amount plus a percentage of max damage, making them much more deadly against relatively low levels than they are at higher ones. Especially if we add any kind of tankiness via artifacts, damage just isn't really a thing 1v1 in the IRE games that I've seen; even damage kills usually involve disabling your opponent from being able to hinder you or heal out of the danger zone.
    So far, damage here is pretty high. And you can't heal health and afflictions at the same time, you have to choose one or the other.

    Damage kills might be much more prevalent here...

    Very true; we'll have to see how damage scales compared to health and regen.
  • GrinGrin Member Posts: 13
    I've found the fix pretty reasonable so far! Buuut most areas seem to have a random one or two enemies that are levels ahead of all the other stuff. They're the same creatures as the rest, just they alone are nigh invulnerable to attacks, despite residing in an area listed as on my level range.

    It still feels pretty restrictive that we can't do anything in a zone a single level bracket above ours. Maybe crank the range that the damage reduction kicks in up by 3-5 levels? Or better, make it scale less harshly? 
  • PumkinPumkin Member Posts: 10
    I don't like that I can't go bashing with my friends. I should be able to get -something- for doing it. I was level 16 or 17 earlier and couldn't get xp killing worms because my friend was like level 20. That's pretty crazy. Even in Achaea I can take my friends bashing as a dragon and get them some decent xp.
  • ArlixaArlixa Member Posts: 17
    At level 65 I thought I could move up to the 65+ areas, but in all four of those zones I deal less than half my full damage and get summarily destroyed because I'm squishy. I don't think the 10 level range grace on damage reduction is enough. Mobs in these areas are evidently all above level 75.

    My current options are Thait, which is on a low respawn timer and is constantly bashed out with just one person around, let alone two or more, which is often the case. Arrizuri Quarry isn't much better and the mobs there grant even less experience. 

    I think the grace needs expanding. Or another 60+ zone needs to be added, which I'm sure there is no time to do given all the other priorities that need attention first.
    Sagex
  • SagexSagex Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    Arlixa said:
    At level 65 I thought I could move up to the 65+ areas, but in all four of those zones I deal less than half my full damage and get summarily destroyed because I'm squishy. I don't think the 10 level range grace on damage reduction is enough. Mobs in these areas are evidently all above level 75.

    My current options are Thait, which is on a low respawn timer and is constantly bashed out with just one person around, let alone two or more, which is often the case. Arrizuri Quarry isn't much better and the mobs there grant even less experience. 

    I think the grace needs expanding. Or another 60+ zone needs to be added, which I'm sure there is no time to do given all the other priorities that need attention first.
    yeah and you got multiple people about to approach the quarry and level 60 area so that's going to be even more a clutter 
Sign In or Register to comment.