Song Challenges

Kax

I'm tired of opening the news every day and reading 500 paragraphs of candidacy speeches. 

This ain't a democracy, folks.

BobbtheBreaker

I only skim 500 paragraphs of candidacy speeches every day. I wish it were a democracy! At least then there'd be a point.

Victoria

Given we're electing a leader by popular vote, it sounds like one.

At worst we're some flavor of oligarchy, using influence.

asimov

This might be something that is sector wide. We bring with us our familiar idea of what a faction should be like, blocking off all possibilities we have not dreamed of. We do this unconsciously. Gotto remember this is sci-fi, futuristic and a place for innovation.  

BobbtheBreaker

Yeh, seriously. Can we not do a popular vote to elect the leader of a not-democracy?

Wuff

It's slightly interesting that the source of all this conflict is the one people seem to be voting for to bring about Unity.

StarFiry

Exactly the reason my char left all factions for now. Let the dust settle and keep neutrality for now. It may turn out good or bad, but once all settled, then the char can decide who to join. 

Shinonome

Not really sure what people expect. Select a leader by spin the bottle?

Flipilaria

Trial by rock-paper-scissors

Quell

The leaders in this game's infancy barely matter, and will barely be remembered. Just get someone in the big chair so you can jump start your faction. 

Kax

Shinonome said:

Not really sure what people expect. Select a leader by spin the bottle?

We have a leader. Either you shut up and obey orders, or you develop support and kick the incumbent out via challenge. 

Someone should have done this already, but a) the mechanics were broken and b) we're busy seeing how everyone feels about different color stories for our rutting uniforms. 

asimov

Perhaps another way would be to build a faction bottom up instead of from the top to bottom. So instead of deciding who the leaders are, start from the smaller components first. Using Scatterhome as an example, different groups can form such that they can then direct their collective influence points to influence the bigger faction. We can call this grouping - gangs, dynasties, families, or houses(as a last resort).

I feel building a faction from bottom up is advantageous for roleplay. You will have groups with different characteristics, coming together, compromising to form a whole. If it is done top to bottom, then all subsequent subgroups will be restrained by the regulations that are established on top, likely resulting in flavourless groups.

Again using the provided Scatterhome story as an example. It is a collection of asteroids and stations mostly, inhabitated by mostly anarchists, criminals and corporate(high class crooks). If different groups are formed, they can then use their influence points as currency.

Example:

"XXX family has promised to use their influence points to support our guy for Marshall. In return we will support their guy for Treasurer."

"We will support XXX for Marshall. Even though he is not one of ours, he does not belong with any of the other families either. Besides, everyone likes and trusts him."

"We need to earn favours with XXX family. I propose we cast our votes with theirs on this Call."

"Eh,,.. the upstart gang XXX is selling their votes for Call 2 since they have no horse in this race. And pretty cheaply too. We can consider buying."

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This groups can even be tied geographically to asteroids, stations, continents, because space is so big. They can have their local laws. The sign reads: "All visitors, including other Scatterhomies are required to unwield their weapon upon entering this station."

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If this example is to be pursued, then right now won't be a good time to start fighting other factions, instead focus on building the faction. We have a long time ahead to do the 3 way fighting, better to focus on the home front and build a deep structure with lots of roleplay hooks.

This way, there will not be pressure to have security, paperwork for enemying etc - administrative activities will just force the faction to define itself the same old IRE way.

Perhaps instead of posts running for positions, have posts recruiting members to form the groups that will form the substance of your faction. I feel this is especially needed for Scatterhome, as it often has more people than the other 2 main factions combined. One single big faction being pressed into unity isn't really very interesting.

Eiphy

The issue with Song is that we have no access to any city privs without a leader. Also, just a more general question- what's to stop the CL from basically disbanding the government and rage quitting? Will we have to do all this again?

Wuff

We tried to do it bottom up and the denizen lord commander said “fuk u holiday time noaw”

Pollivar

It's not a popular vote, your Influence matters.

bairloch

I just ignore it all.

Joscelin

Pollivar said:

It's not a popular vote, your Influence matters.

While something surely needs done about Cosmpiercers giving so much Influence (and the CP changes may have already done that simply by making them harder to spam capture, I haven't done one since last night), I certainly like it at the beginning; people doing things to help out will hopefully vastly out-Influence those people who are just grinding away by themselves for now.

If we really want to differentiate the political systems of the factions mechanically, isn't the easiest way just tweaking what gives Influence in each one? Maybe you keep Scatterhome anarchic and individualistic by giving everyone equal votes, full stop; maybe Song gets increased Influence for military victories. It's going to be really hard to get an entire faction to buy into anything but a democracy, I think, if you just leave things to functionally be one mechanically.

Eiphy

I do want to reiterate that the lack of cosmpiercer cooldowns has given the people who do those basically max influence. It enables a very early control by a small group of players. 

Pollivar

Which is a good thing, since that small group of players is obviously the group that gives a shit.

BeepBoop

In the time it takes them to take a cosmpiercer I can get 10 times the marks it gives each month, and the cosmpiercer takes a large number of them. I don't think not doing cosmpiercers necessarily means people don't give a shit. We just value our time better and would rather help the org out in more meaningful ways. 

Atalkez

No reason for me to do coms right now. I’m low level, don’t care about becoming a city leader, so I’m just focusing on bashing/questing until I’m in the 60s or so. I’ve done a couple, but there didn’t seem to be any good rewards for doing it other than the marks for the faction.

Eiphy

Pollivar said:

Which is a good thing, since that small group of players is obviously the group that gives a shit.

There are more ways to help an org than just a PK objective, especially since the lack of CD means you aren't even guaranteed marks for the city at day turn, which makes it debatedly helpful for the org - but you are guaranteed a huge chunk of influence. The lack of CD + no discretionary ways to earn influence means that people running cosmpiercers have far more influence than people doing other things which don't reward influence such as donating gold, helping newbies, hosting events. You can "give a shit" and be doing other stuff.

Kix

Eiphy said:

Pollivar said:

Which is a good thing, since that small group of players is obviously the group that gives a shit.

There are more ways to help an org than just a PK objective, especially since the lack of CD means you aren't even guaranteed marks for the city at day turn - but you are guaranteed a huge chunk of influence. The lack of CD + no discretionary ways to earn influence means that people running cosmpiercers have far more influence than people doing other things which don't reward influence such as donating gold, helping newbies, hosting events. You can "give a shit" and be doing other stuff.

In Scatterhome at least, we put out Calls to honor those people. Don't know how it works in other factions.

Eiphy

Song's calls have all been for leadership, there isn't another option like in SH. Also, afaik you can only get Song influence via cosmpiercers and quests, ie nothing super useful like helping newbies, donating gold, hosting events, leading group hunts, etc, will give influence. We don't have the level of control over vagaries that you have, which is why the influence boosting is a pretty big deal - cosmpiercers give so much influence right now that it's ensuring that the people who run them control the government as there is only ONE other way to earn influence and it's time-gated.