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BEAST/Heavy armor and balancing it before the upcoming Mod overhaul

edited July 2021 in Feedback

Images for reference(Light is not 105% quality, medium and heavy are):

Light ARmor (No Pref):

Medium Armor (No Pref):

Heavy Armor (Impact preference):

Fun fact, our medium armor contestant got confused when I posted my armor values (last of the above) and thought it was another medium armor person posting theirs. They wanted to know what set they used to get it. That's how stupid close the different armor weights are in value.

Some math, please note that most hunting attacks during the end game seem to be around 800, not 1000.

If you take 1000 damage and apply it to the average value of 17L, 20M, and 25H you'll get the following damage received:
Light: 830
Medium: 800
Heavy: 750

That is less than a hundred difference, and it gets closer the smaller the number.

However! There is variance in attacks, so it can be hard to properly "math" it to exactness. Example pvp hit:

Light armor, not pure 105% quality, no mods:

Heavy armor, pure 105% quality, modded for impact damage(30.3%):

That's a difference of 155 damage. And again, there is variance in attack damage so it can be smaller or wider, but not by a ton.

At this point, armor perfectly weighted against an impact attack would save you from completely trash armor by about the amount bleed tick. Not even a high one. The problem further exacerbates if you consider the healing malus that is applied the heavier your armor. Medium heals for more than Heavy, and Light heals for a lot more.

On top of THAT, is the fact that several of the lighter armored classes have flat DR skills. Nano has a 20% DR (could be 15%,  but math leans towards 20%). Fury has 10%, and I'm told it can scale much higher during combat. Fury also heals WILDLY better, and faster, than any other class.
EDIT: Nano Protect is only 10%, but Fury Resistant is 25%. Fury also have Harden, which is 10%. Not sure how those two skills work with each other.

This leads to the strange result of BEAST, the Heavy Armor unit, effectively being the least durable class in the game. Scoundrel technically takes more damage but heals for much more. Engineer takes basically the same damage, but again heals better.

-Bring all class heals to the same value. This makes armor actually matter. If you want to have one class be the "healer" (engineer?) then by all means make theirs better and balance accordingly.
-Bring Heavy armor up to about 60% base. Maybe even higher. Bring Medium up to about 35%.
-Nano might need to have their DR reduced to 10% or even removed. Depends on if you want to design it to be tied for the most durable, a completely viable choice.
-Did you know the BEAST shield gives no actual protection to the pilot? No DR, nor armor value, nothing. Change this, give the class a passive DR boost.

I fully suggest applying all of the above, seeing how it feels, and balancing around that setting instead of the current setting. Right now, people change class, forget to re-attach armor, bash for days before realizing they're naked, and laugh that it didn't matter. Armor technically does things to numbers. Just not enough to matter in pvp or pve in any realistic way. Please change that before balancing armor mods.

I bet if you polled the player base asking it which class it thinks thematically represents the "tank" of the game, almost everyone would say BEAST. I bet if you asked them which they assume is the least durable, I bet nobody would guess the heavy armor user is that, or at least tied for it. Let's bring the mechanics in line with the thematics.

Thank you for listening to my latest rant on armor being useless


  • I'd love to see your armor test based off of a static damage attack like FREEZE. Even before the mod rework, using armor mods can make a huge difference.

    Also take a look at the AB info on the different class heals. And get us some numbers on how much each can heal per balance. They are actually more varied than you might think.

    For instance Fury heal balance is 2.0 seconds Scoundrel is 2.5? I think. 20% heal for light and medium armor maybe? And 18% for Beast? But if armor is negating 25-27% a classheal counts for more deflected damage as an example. Lots of missing math for these numbers.

  • edited July 2021
    Scoundrel Stim: 2.5 sec balance, 8 sec cooldown
    Fury Suffuse: 2 sec balance, 10 sec cooldown
    Nano Embrance: 3 sec balance, 10 sec cooldown
    Engineer stimjector: 3 sec balance, 10 second cooldown. Special: Autocast, can heal others
    Beast: 2.5 sec balance, 10 (9.2 with servos, 10.8 with plasma) second cooldown
  • edited July 2021

    light armor(One 105% quality) - Draining: 16.35, 3% talent resistance
    heavy armor(Full 105%) - Draining: 25.54, 0% talent resistance
    heavy armor(Full 105%) - Draining: 25.2, 0% talent resistance
    (there is no kith defense stat from armor)
  • Might want to update Beast for 8 seconds if Suit Route Servos and 12? If routing Plasma I believe with rounding. 
  • Armor Overviews for Solus and Holg also for those looking at the draining and kith resistance and any mods they each have. 
  • I did update the healing, but it's not 8 seconds

  • Updated freeze attack to include armor and resistance numbers
  • Reflecting on some of the thoughts here as I ponder all things mods... Please do continue the discussion. But for clarity, a couple numbers:

    - Nano Protect is not 20%, it is 10%.
    - Rage Resistant is not 10%, it is 25%.
  • Also don't forget once we start fighting afflictions are applied to either decrease or increase the damage done. Unsure how it stacks with armor.
    (Scatterhome): You say, "Do you like things up your ass? Is your record clean? Are you looking for a job in the near future but not right now? Smuggle drugs for Solus and get stuffed across the galaxy."

  • Neritus said:
    Reflecting on some of the thoughts here as I ponder all things mods... Please do continue the discussion. But for clarity, a couple numbers:

    - Nano Protect is not 20%, it is 10%.
    - Rage Resistant is not 10%, it is 25%.
    Strange but intersting. We really felt like it was higher than that. Good to know!
  • Although, I think I was referring to the 'Harden' skill for the Fury.
  • Good discussion. See: recent announcement on armor changes.
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