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Did engineer really need a 70% damage nerf to bleed?

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  • Izrith said:
    That's true of every multiplayer game though Jericho. Although space stuff doesn't really care about your level (but getting a good ship does because it costs marks and mark income goes up with level increases)
    See this I completely disagree with.  The only IRE games I've played the lowbies and midbies always had a place in the fight.  The highest level and top skilled would be the front line, but the others ALWAYS had something they could do to help; bash places for gold to deposit, be the backline using ranged attacks like telepathy/archery, be the bait even.  But never in any IRE game I've played was it required to get to high or max level to compete properly.  Hell in Achaea if you were skilled enough you could beat a max level character while you yourself were at level 60, which is a mid level in Achaea.
  • I think what is escaping most people is that this is open beta which means the game is still technically in testing. Nothing is close to balanced for large player amounts yet.

    Sit back and relax.

    Game has only been open a week, let's give them time to figure this out rather than kicking a dead horse and demanding a fix on Christmas Day.
  • Citrus said:
    See this I completely disagree with.  The only IRE games I've played the lowbies and midbies always had a place in the fight.  The highest level and top skilled would be the front line, but the others ALWAYS had something they could do to help; bash places for gold to deposit, be the backline using ranged attacks like telepathy/archery, be the bait even.  But never in any IRE game I've played was it required to get to high or max level to compete properly.  
    On the backline using ranged attacks because you're low level and can't contribute much else I would personally take as an appropriate option. Being bait or bashing I think are silly as a suggestion for how a player can have fun in PvP on a game. "step into this room and get oneshot" or "just bash for gold instead" are not fun gameplay, and I am pretty sure you would agree with that point too.

    The conversation isn't necessarily about how to have a marginal contribution on a team fight. It's about how to have fun in the PvP aspect of this game, which like other IRE games is marketed as *the* PvP MUD alternative. "just bash" or "just get oneshot" don't provide what is being marketed.
  • edited December 2018
    Citrus said:
    Ahahahahahaha I WISH it only took 13 hours to get 95-100.  I already said before, back when Achaea was a thing, that I was getting .1% to .2% per HOUR.  13 hours of .2% per hour is 26%, NOT EVEN ONE LEVEL.
    I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean 1 - 2% per hour. Not .1% because that's literally never been a thing... 1-2% per hour hasn't been a thing in the 12 years I've played, either. Nowadays even unartied people can push ~15-20% per hour at 95-99 (Dragon is 99 btw, not 100). Artied people or paying someone like Penwize to hunt you up, can easily push double that. 13hrs was maybe a slight exaggeration, but definitely <20 is doable; depends on how many others are hunting since Achaea spawn timers are a lot longer.

    If it only takes 13 hours to get 95-100 is Achaea now then it has been changed MASSIVELY.
    No it's just never been as awful as you claim it to be, provided you're hunting areas of your level.

    And on the topic of people liking grinding, I find that VERY hard to believe.  Pushing the same one button over and over again killing the same mobs over and over again in a loop for 8+ hours...   You've already lost your sanity if that is in anyway interesting or fun to anyone.
    I like grinding. I find it cathartic and relaxing. Think the fact I have ~15 'max' level characters across all of IRE proves as much. I could probably list off at least 5 people from each IRE game, right off the top of my head, that like it. And that's without even trying. Just because you don't, that doesn't mean nobody does.
    eta: Tecton's already said grinding isn't the most efficient way to level, as well. So I mean if you want to level faster, there's obviously methods for it. Whether or not you'll have gear by the time you get max level is possibly another thing. I haven't gotten to high-level quests and the like just yet.
  • Citrus said:
    Maruna said:
    Jinresh said:
    Darios said:
    If someone chooses to burn through an area of content in a week, thats up to them. Its a better alternative then adding redundant time requirements that just make people do something they don't enjoy/stop playing in the downtime.
    With this line of thinking, why even have levels? Lets get rid of all time requirements (for the players sake of course) and just start everyone at max level. That way they can really focus on how they want to play the game and not worry about that pesky grinding.
    And if they like grinding? Believe it or not there are people who do. Why, exactly, does it matter to you what someone else does with their time? How does someone enjoying grinding more than you, affect what happens to you in any way? You don't wanna do 10-hour days grinding, that's cool. They do, and it's not really any of your concern.
    Citrus said:
    The way it looks now, I could grind from 1-75 in Starmourn faster than 95-100 in Achaea.
    No you can't. 95-100 in Achaea takes around ~13 hours of no-lifing.
    Ahahahahahaha I WISH it only took 13 hours to get 95-100.  I already said before, back when Achaea was a thing, that I was getting .1% to .2% per HOUR.  13 hours of .2% per hour is 26%, NOT EVEN ONE LEVEL.
    I assume you mean 1-2% per hour, because .1-.2 has never been a thing. And in the 12 years I've played even 1-2% is not a thing unless you just really suck at bashing. Unartied people have been able to push 10-15% minimum even in the past ~6 or 7 years. Artied or paying people like Penwize can easily net ~2.5x that much. 13 hours is maybe a slight exaggeration but it's definitely doable in sub-20 hours, depending on how many people are bashing when you're pushing.
    If it only takes 13 hours to get 95-100 is Achaea now then it has been changed MASSIVELY.
    I wouldn't say 'massively' - it's never been quite as awful as you described it, or supposedly remember it.

    And on the topic of people liking grinding, I find that VERY hard to believe.  Pushing the same one button over and over again killing the same mobs over and over again in a loop for 8+ hours...   You've already lost your sanity if that is in anyway interesting or fun to anyone.
    I can probably name 5 people right off the top of my head, from each IRE game, that like grinding. Personally I like it; I find it cathartic and relaxing, the fact I have probably 15 'max' level characters across all the games proves as much. There's an entire market for people who enjoy grinding games... Just because you don't enjoy it, that doesn't mean nobody enjoys it.

  • Second post because the forum keeps flagging mine as suspicious and requiring approval...
    It's already been said that grinding isn't the most efficient way to level in Starmourn. If you're wanting to get max level you should get out exploring.
  • Maruna said:
    Second post because the forum keeps flagging mine as suspicious and requiring approval...
    It's already been said that grinding isn't the most efficient way to level in Starmourn. If you're wanting to get max level you should get out exploring.
    I have heard this said but I'm not sure what people mean. The main quest gives a decent amount of experience, but you can only do that once every few levels. Captaincy and Hacking are supposed to bleed into normal experience but I've seen only negligible contributions there (about 1% of so, equivalent to a mob kill for something that takes much much longer). 

    What do you mean by exploring? I've walked around a lot and GREETed NPCs a lot. I like it! Love reading the descriptions and how different everything is on different areas. But I've seen very little that will provide me with significant experience. Maybe I'm just doing it super wrong? I'd love to know what I'm missing.
  • When I say exploring I mean finding quests to do. The game is chock full of them.
  • edited December 2018
    I honestly have no idea what you people are talking about. I am destroying levels as Engineer. I've had the last couple days off and I more than doubled my level and crossed into the top #100.

    Edited: I'm wondering how you guys spent your stats, what your gear is like, etc.

  • edited December 2018
    Then I must be doing something terribly wrong then. Which, if that's the case, is disheartening. 
  • Errant said:
    I honestly have no idea what you people are talking about. I am destroying levels as Engineer. I've had the last couple days off and I more than doubled my level and crossed into the top #100.

    Edited: I'm wondering how you guys spent your stats, what your gear is like, etc.

    You apparently didn't read the thread, because the issues herein were fixed.
  • We really derailed this didn't we? Sorry about that. The conversation took an interesting turn though there was probably a better place for it. 

    I don't even have much to comment on the bleed changes and such. Just wanted to weigh in with my thoughts on why the reason behind these changes matters a lot. 
  • Squeakums said:
    We really derailed this didn't we? Sorry about that. The conversation took an interesting turn though there was probably a better place for it. 

    I don't even have much to comment on the bleed changes and such. Just wanted to weigh in with my thoughts on why the reason behind these changes matters a lot. 

    Personally I think that's fine. It's natural for conversations to progress. But occasionally someone will com ein and comment only reading the title or a few lines of the first post...
  • Squeakums said:

    Make the grind less mindless or make it faster.
    I'm only level 21, but up through where I am now, there's been two types of bashing for people who want to play either of these ways. You can find the quick/safe grind mobs like glitched robots and terra worms, or you can find the mobs that open up the pve combat system more like aggressively malfunctioning robots or windmills. Maybe it doesn't carry over to higher levels, but this game seems to be really good at humoring both play styles so far.
    Character: Edon
    Race: Elgan
    Class: Engineer
  • The problem is that going for more difficult mobs does not give you higher XP rewards than the easy ones do (or if they do then its negligible to the point of not even being noticeable).
    Also quests currently PALE in comparison to proper grinding. They give almost no XP by comparison, and there is next to no point to actually doing them if your goal is to get levels quickly. There are other posts on the forums (including mine) regarding this.
  • Maruna said:
    Citrus said:
    Maruna said:
    Jinresh said:
    Darios said:
    If someone chooses to burn through an area of content in a week, thats up to them. Its a better alternative then adding redundant time requirements that just make people do something they don't enjoy/stop playing in the downtime.
    With this line of thinking, why even have levels? Lets get rid of all time requirements (for the players sake of course) and just start everyone at max level. That way they can really focus on how they want to play the game and not worry about that pesky grinding.
    And if they like grinding? Believe it or not there are people who do. Why, exactly, does it matter to you what someone else does with their time? How does someone enjoying grinding more than you, affect what happens to you in any way? You don't wanna do 10-hour days grinding, that's cool. They do, and it's not really any of your concern.
    Citrus said:
    The way it looks now, I could grind from 1-75 in Starmourn faster than 95-100 in Achaea.
    No you can't. 95-100 in Achaea takes around ~13 hours of no-lifing.
    Ahahahahahaha I WISH it only took 13 hours to get 95-100.  I already said before, back when Achaea was a thing, that I was getting .1% to .2% per HOUR.  13 hours of .2% per hour is 26%, NOT EVEN ONE LEVEL.
    I assume you mean 1-2% per hour, because .1-.2 has never been a thing. And in the 12 years I've played even 1-2% is not a thing unless you just really suck at bashing. Unartied people have been able to push 10-15% minimum even in the past ~6 or 7 years. Artied or paying people like Penwize can easily net ~2.5x that much. 13 hours is maybe a slight exaggeration but it's definitely doable in sub-20 hours, depending on how many people are bashing when you're pushing.
    If it only takes 13 hours to get 95-100 is Achaea now then it has been changed MASSIVELY.
    I wouldn't say 'massively' - it's never been quite as awful as you described it, or supposedly remember it.

    And on the topic of people liking grinding, I find that VERY hard to believe.  Pushing the same one button over and over again killing the same mobs over and over again in a loop for 8+ hours...   You've already lost your sanity if that is in anyway interesting or fun to anyone.
    I can probably name 5 people right off the top of my head, from each IRE game, that like grinding. Personally I like it; I find it cathartic and relaxing, the fact I have probably 15 'max' level characters across all the games proves as much. There's an entire market for people who enjoy grinding games... Just because you don't enjoy it, that doesn't mean nobody enjoys it.

    No I mean .1 to .2, as in a fraction of a percent.  I probably have old logs than can back that up even.  If you played Achaea ever you must of only played it the past year maybe.  I started in 2002 and when bashing yes, 0.1 - 0.2% per hour was a thing.  That one guy bashed Bellas Keep to Dragon and got about that, I used to bash Mog and would get about that.  I don't know if you're just lying or remembering completely wrong.  But ask some old people like Katalyst, Skarash, Cooper, Jhui, Xio, Rangor and they'll all tell you that yes you would grind for fractions of a percent per hour.  Even then last time I returned to Achaea it was impossible to get 10-15% per hour in the high 90s.  I might just go back to Achaea for a day or two to show you.

    I assure you, its completely impossible to do in sub-20 hours and back when Aringar did it it took thousands of hours.
  • Citrus said:

    Ahahahahahaha I WISH it only took 13 hours to get 95-100.  I already said before, back when Achaea was a thing, that I was getting .1% to .2% per HOUR.  13 hours of .2% per hour is 26%, NOT EVEN ONE LEVEL.
    I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean 1 - 2% per hour. Not .1% because that's literally never been a thing... 1-2% per hour hasn't been a thing in the 12 years I've played, either. Nowadays even unartied people can push ~15-20% per hour at 95-99 (Dragon is 99 btw, not 100). Artied people or paying someone like Penwize to hunt you up, can easily push double that. 13hrs was maybe a slight exaggeration, but definitely <20 is doable; depends on how many others are hunting since Achaea spawn timers are a lot longer.

    If it only takes 13 hours to get 95-100 is Achaea now then it has been changed MASSIVELY.
    No it's just never been as awful as you claim it to be, provided you're hunting areas of your level.

    And on the topic of people liking grinding, I find that VERY hard to believe.  Pushing the same one button over and over again killing the same mobs over and over again in a loop for 8+ hours...   You've already lost your sanity if that is in anyway interesting or fun to anyone.
    I like grinding. I find it cathartic and relaxing. Think the fact I have ~15 'max' level characters across all of IRE proves as much. I could probably list off at least 5 people from each IRE game, right off the top of my head, that like it. And that's without even trying. Just because you don't, that doesn't mean nobody does.
    Also it's been stated already that grinding's not the most efficient way to level. So get out there and explore the world.

  • Grinding seems to be the most efficient way. 

    Does anyone else... See any other ways?
  • Maruna said:
    Citrus said:

    Ahahahahahaha I WISH it only took 13 hours to get 95-100.  I already said before, back when Achaea was a thing, that I was getting .1% to .2% per HOUR.  13 hours of .2% per hour is 26%, NOT EVEN ONE LEVEL.
    I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean 1 - 2% per hour. Not .1% because that's literally never been a thing... 1-2% per hour hasn't been a thing in the 12 years I've played, either. Nowadays even unartied people can push ~15-20% per hour at 95-99 (Dragon is 99 btw, not 100). Artied people or paying someone like Penwize to hunt you up, can easily push double that. 13hrs was maybe a slight exaggeration, but definitely <20 is doable; depends on how many others are hunting since Achaea spawn timers are a lot longer.

    If it only takes 13 hours to get 95-100 is Achaea now then it has been changed MASSIVELY.
    No it's just never been as awful as you claim it to be, provided you're hunting areas of your level.

    And on the topic of people liking grinding, I find that VERY hard to believe.  Pushing the same one button over and over again killing the same mobs over and over again in a loop for 8+ hours...   You've already lost your sanity if that is in anyway interesting or fun to anyone.
    I like grinding. I find it cathartic and relaxing. Think the fact I have ~15 'max' level characters across all of IRE proves as much. I could probably list off at least 5 people from each IRE game, right off the top of my head, that like it. And that's without even trying. Just because you don't, that doesn't mean nobody does.
    Also it's been stated already that grinding's not the most efficient way to level. So get out there and explore the world.

    It was stated, and found to be false.

    Quests across the board will need some serious buffs to be competitive.
  • Quest rewards are pretty good for the effort required, but there are only so many of you can do for a given period of time while you can continue to bash for much longer.
  • Wuff said:
    Grinding seems to be the most efficient way. 

    Does anyone else... See any other ways?
    Hacking was more efficient than grinding up until about level 16-17, then started to drop off incredibly quickly. Not a single one of the middle level quests (that I've found) seems to scale to an appropriate reward for the time invested. Captaincy experience might be comparable at the higher end, I'm unsure.
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