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Scoundrel - Skill Feedback

edited January 2019 in Feedback
TLDR: 

-Guile's attack skills are not feasible for PvE and a weaker overall option for PvP.  
-Guile in PvE (i.e., haymaker does both less damage and does not allow for reload moved); trip, bind, and pummel do not work in PvE.  None of the reload abilities work in PvE.  Since hunting for marks and equipment will continue to take a lot of time, there is zero reason to use agility currently and zero reason to use guile in PvE or PvP as a result.  These moves probably need a core functionality review and potentially turned into more defensive abilities or make them more compatible with the rest of the scoundrel skillset?
-Regular and combusting ammo in gunslinging still feel wrong from a playability and enjoyment perspective.  I would rather see combusting get some afflictions and deal muscular damage and regular bullets be dropped all-together unless they are changed to deal scaling damage based on how heavily armored your opponent is (i.e., useful against BEASTs or others running very defensive setups or against heavily armored denizons).  The damage I do in level 70+ zones with a level 71 piece and full aim is barely enough to grind current level as strong as me mobs -- I feel like scoundrel PvE bullet damage needs a slight increase back to what it was before.
-Scoundrels lack from any kind of passive skills for combat like other classes get -- i.e., kith blade powers, routing, plasma nozzles, emperyeals, blade changes, etc.; I would like to see some of these duplicative and less than useful skills be phased out and exchanged for skills that are passive and allow for changes to how the scoundrel works.  One such option would be allowing scoundrels to change clip size from 2-16 bullets to allow for more reload or less reload abilities to be used.  Another would be to put a scope on the pistol (more damage out-of-room for ironsights, but less in-room -- for lower level character supporting with ranged combat; or perhaps a melee adaption in guile that allows for shooting bullets based on agility instead of aim).
-Improvisation has a lot of kind of useless options -- hiding and stickybombs and just setting off IEDs is not very effective from my experience.  I would prefer that these were changed for more shrapnel-like utility. 

Guile
Kneecap Smash them in the knee and reload your pistol.
-Scoundrel does not have a good way to deal muscular damage, so this skill is largely useless.  I could get more use from this if it scaled off of internal (wounding) instead, or if scoundrel's had a reliable gunslinging method of dealing muscular damage.
Suckerpunch Drive your fist into their gut.
-I used this consistently while bashing before the changes to IEDs, but it is really weak for bashing since the winded condition does not deal PvE damage.  In PvP, it seemed to be doing about 30-40 damage anytime someone moved which is negligible.  I would like to see the damage on winded scale to 3-4% of heal (maybe 120 damage)?
Gritblast Blast them with grit while reloading. 
-I did not get a lot of use out of this because the damage was subpar and it the AB file does not show that it grants any afflictions or systems damage.  It hits everyone in the room for about 1/3rd the damage of my other reload abilities.
Haymaker A powerful swing with your titanium knuckles.
-A really weak option compared to your gun -- not sure why a scoundrel would ever use it?  It deals 10% less damage than gunslinging regular bullets even with maximum stats in each category and also does not allow for a reload option. In addition, since none of the other guile attacks work in pvE due to instant cure of prone, you would never go into agility because you need aim for PvE.  Therefore, none of the guile-based attacks are worthwhile.
Stim Heal yourself with stims.
-A good heal -- seems fine to me.
Trip Send them reeling.
-Prone is really easy to cure, so it's not super useful outside of a channeling interrupt or as part of a strategy to use bind.  Does not work at all in PvE
Bind Hog-tie your helpless target.
-Does not work in PvE due to instant cure of prone; have not tested the changes, but it never seems to last as long as advertised for PvP either.
Pummel Beat them into a pulp.
-Useless -- does not work in PvE because of the cure and does not even close to enough damage in PvP due to how far down into fight you need and how easy to cure the conditions needed to start this are.
Incite Incite a riot!
-I have not managed to get this to work yet.
Strangle Finish off your bound foe.
-Forcefeed seems a lot easier to pull-off than this one and the damage tick is so long that you will never get off more than one tick of this attack; it needs to be adjusted to be useful and tick far more quickly.
Illegalmods Safety is overrated.
-I've never seen flight run out -- is this a really useful skill?
Bar Prevent traversal.
-I like bar, it works well, but UNBAR needs to be added to the AB file.
Improvisedcover Take cover where you can.
-I never run out of cover in rooms that can have cover and this skill does not work in rooms that do not already have props; I'm still trying to find a use case in PvP for this skill since cover does not seem useful in PvE currently.
Jetwash Disturb the air around them.
-I have not yet been able to get this skill to work.
Shoulderroll Roll from one cover to another.
-I have not tested this yet.
Rouse Rally the troops.
-A really quick skill, it would be nice if the duration was slightly longer than 30 seconds.
Conceal Hide in plain sight.
-Slink and conceal are rarely useful for me since they both end on movement and it's completely duplicated from the skirmishing tree.
Dash Sprint in a chosen direction.
-There are rarely rooms in a straight line based on how the zones are built, so this skill doesn't really come in handy.
Airstrike Call in an airstrike.
-I use this skill a lot and it's pretty balanced given the long CD and that it can only be used outside.
Bugs Plant a bug.
-Works well, but I wish allies, crew mates, and their loyal followers did not stop this. Works as intended.
Scan Assess the situation.
-Not very useful given the very limited information provided
Track Who passed through here?
-I use this regularly and it works well, but tracks do not seem to last long enough.
Multibug Tune into multiple bugs at once.
-Works well, I  like it. Works as intended.
Wipetracks Disturb your tracks so nobody can follow you.
-Tracks don't last very long, so I rarely get use out of this.
Visualbug Detect movement through your bugs.
-I like this skill a lot -- very fun.  Works as intended.

Edit: I misread the timer AB and it's actually already a mod that will tick a bomb several times.

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Comments

  • Gunslinging
    Crackshot Fire off your PIECE.
    -Works as intended.  Damage is challenging for 70+ mobs and I would die to them if this were my only option.
    Detonate Fire at an IED, triggering it.
    -I've never tried this because of the long setup required -- far easier to just to fling or lob the IEDs.
    Pointblank A concussive, point-blank shot.
    -I'm not a huge fan of this skill; guile trip seems to be a better cancel option than pointblank.
    Rapidfire Why fire once, when you can fire twice?
    -I really enjoy this skill.  The cooldown is about the right duration and gives variety in attack patterns.
    Switchout Switch to a backup gun.
    -I have yet to see anyone try the EM damage route, so I've never had a reason to use this. Also, weapons are so rare I don't even have a feasible back-up piece.
    Ironsights Aim down your iron sights.
    -Was buggy last time I tried it and I could never get it to target properly. This might be fixed now though and it works well when you can get it to target.
    Outgunned Take them all down.
    -I never had a reason to use this because fighting two enemies at the same time always results in my death.  I would rather see a different skill here because I will either shoot my allies if in group combat or just die if in PvE trying to use this.

    Regular Armour-piercing ammunition.
    -I'm not sure what role this ammo is supposed to fill.  It does impact damage only and currently does the most damage, but it means that I hunt with this and it's a bit boring.
    Ammoselect Rapidly switch ammunition effects. 
    -Works as intended.
    Impairing Mentally-impairing bullets.
    -Works as intended -- I like this one.
    Combusting Incendiary ammunition.
    -I can never tell a difference between combusting and regular bullets; thermal damage seems to have no impact from testing in PvE or PvP.  I would like to see this one target muscular so that scoundrels could theoretically try and use kneecap.
    Disrupting Bullets that damage the senses.
    -I have not tried this one extensively yet in PvE or PvP because it has very few combo options for scoundrels.  I would like to see some of the guile attacks maybe feed off of sense damage for this to be useful.
    Arcing Bullets fitted with mini EMP tips.
    -Most classes have pretty easy EM cures, so I have not tried this yet.
    Weakening Ammunition that weakens the body.
    -A good option, I like the abilities here. I wish it did more damage because currently I can't use it in PvE or I tend to die to anything 70+ with a current weapon and maximum aim unless I use regular bullets.
    Infusing Ammo with slow-release effects.
    -Hard to use infusing bullets currently because the increased WW damage is not that useful versus the time it takes to stick the infusing bullets.  If the affliction stacked at 20% instead of 10% it might be more worthwhile given that you are losing a lot of WW damage from the 5 bullets you would otherwise be putting on.
    Amplifying Damage-increasing ammo.
    -Seems to work fine, but scan is not great so it's hard to know when to switch to this.

    Quickload Reload your pistol in the heat of battle.
    -Works fine, but no one ever uses it.
    Magtoss Toss your spent magazine at your foe.
    -Good early reload skill, works as intended.
    Spin Reload quickly and prepare for your next shot.
    -Spin would be useful if it has a 1s balance instead of a 2s balance.  Currently, there is no reason mathematically to use it because your other options deal more damage per second than spin.
    Shellspill Roll your spent shells on the floor.
    -I have not been able to test this yet.
    Eject Throw away an unspent magazine.
    -I wish this did not have a CD -- given you are losing a reload ability from using it, I would prefer it just had a 1.5s balance and no CD.  

    Gauge Shoot while moving between cover.
    -No reason to really use this so far given cover is less than useful in 90% of circumstances.
    Cavein Bring down the roof.
    -Works as intended, a pretty good skill.
    Ambush Shoot first, always.
    -Works as intended, I like having this as an option in my rotation.
    Unload Fire off all of your ammo in rapid succession.
    -Bug fix was helpful, this skill is a lot better than pummel (and pummel needs a review and tune-up in damage, time, or ability to use)

    Vigilant Fire upon enemies who draw near.
    -Not super useful -- I'm usually using ironsights at range and the damage from this shot isn't that helpful versus ambush on a trigger.  If this did more damage than ambush then I could see it being useful.
    Bulletguard Take out incoming projectiles.
    -Not a bad skill, I've not gotten a lot of use out of it though.
    Overwatch Return fire on your foes. 
    -The channel is hard to use, but not a bad skill.
  • edited January 2019
    Improvisation

    Trigger Trigger your IED in the crowd.
    -Not super useful since it hits you too. I don't use this.
    Sweep Sweep for explosives.
    -Not super useful since planted IEDs don't do that much damage and require balance to use.
    Hide Carefully conceal an explosive device.
    -Not super useful because it's hard to trigger at the right time.
    Slip Slip them an IED from on-high.
    -Not bad, but grapple and other enemy skills make this hard to use.  Not available against NPCs.
    Tripwire They better watch their step.
    -I use this a fair amount and it works well, but tripwires are still set off by people using tread.
    Forcefeed Open wide!
    -Fun skill and my primary finisher.  Hard to tell when to use it though because prone/bind are so easy to cure.
    Lob Send your IEDs flyin'.
    -Works mostly as Intended and I enjoy it.
    Disarm No more bomb. 
    -Not very useful since no one ever plants bombs because they do so little damage and the setup time takes forever.
    Multibomb Bigger boom, bigger smiles.
    -This does not do very much damage and given the cooldown, I never really use it.  If it did 3x the damage of a normal bomb on the long CD, I might try it, but mostly not a good skill currently the way it is designed.

    Fling Throw an IED while you reload.
    -Fun skill and one that I use pretty frequently in both PvE and PvE
    Stickybomb Reload and place an adapted IED in one motion.
    -Why would you use this over fling? I'm not sure this is a useful skill.

    Construction Construct improvised explosives.
    -Works as intended and the recent changes to the amount constructed are helpful. No issues here.
    Wiring Wire it up for a 1-2-3 punch.
    -Not very useful when considering the other options such as lob, slip, and fling.
    Timer Add a timer for delayed blasts.
    -Seems to add multiple ticks -- not great for ripper, but could be useful for a sleeper IED -- need to test.
    Shrapnel Load your explosives with a painful punch.
    -Need a way to construct the IEDs with shrapnel for an increased balance time.  Adding shrapnel one at a time is a waste of time.  I would like to see the other mods adjusted to be more useful like shrapnel because currently timers and stickybombs are not very useful.

    Ripper Tear through flesh like butter.
    -Works fine. Damage is ok, but not great.
    Popper Send blasts high into the air.
    -Might be fine in-combination with jetwash, but not one I have tested.
    Blinder Dull their senses with a powerful flash.
    -Not useful for PvE, but might have a combo in PvP if the afflictions or damage were better.
    Piercer Fill the air with toxic darts.
    -Damage on this one is really subpar from testing and I don't use it over rippers.
    Pusher Blast them away with a powerful wave.
    - I wish this could be used in PvE outside of cosmpiercers to split the 70+ zone rooms with multiple aggressive mobs. Not super useful in PvP.
    Zapper Throw technology into disarray.
    -EM damage seems weak with so many easy class counters.
    Shrieker Drive them to distraction.
    -Seems to work as intended -- fine IED.
    Melter Spray corrosive acid around.
    -Damage increase does not last long enough to make this a useful choice.  Any of the damaging IEDs are better because they do more damage and also immediately. If this also did some subsystem damage it might be feasible alternative.
    Sleeper Night night, princess.
    -Not very useful as the sleep affect does not last long enough.
    Choker Unleash noxious gasses.
    -Damage from this is not very high and the tick is too slow to be useful. If it had more ticks more quickly, it might be better than using another IED, but currently it feels like a weak option.
    Distorter Impact their sense of time and space.
    -Seems to work as intended and can sometimes be useful late in fights.
  • I normally use haymaker when i PvP if I realize that I can kill the mob with one hit and I just ran out of ammo. Then I just do a quickload after the guys dead. It's to both save on ammo and/or so I can start the next mob with a full clip. The rest of what you said, at least on the abilities I currently have are spot on.
    (Scatterhome): Cal says, "We're called Scatterhome after what everybody does at the end of the night when it's time for someone to pay the bar tab."
    (Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my calculations, it's your turn to pay."
    (Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what my calculations have come to."
    (Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds up to that, yeah."
    (Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
  • Looks fairly accurate. Only thing I'm unsure about is your comment on Eject. I thought the purpose of it was to give you access to a reload ability (probably fling) on demand without having to wait to empty your gun, since it then lets you do a reload.
  • kaeus said:
    Looks fairly accurate. Only thing I'm unsure about is your comment on Eject. I thought the purpose of it was to give you access to a reload ability (probably fling) on demand without having to wait to empty your gun, since it then lets you do a reload.
    That is what I meant, if you understood differently I probably worded it poorly!

    -- Message #21 from Tecton --
    21000 IEDs? This is my sad lha-ti face. :(.


  • Could be ok maybe with a lower cooldown, else you could just stall a fight by ejecting/throwing sleepers all day.
  • Well this is absolutely hilarious to see.

    Scoundrel can deal damage to any subsystem they want to, and apply some of the best afflictions from every single list at will.

    Use Suckerpunch twice?

    Gritblast is an AoE you use while technically off-balance if you have no other reload.

    Scoundrels probably have the best kit for proning and keeping enemies proned... Trip is a melee interrupt, which a lot of classes don't have.

    Stim is not an "okay" heal, it's probably the best heal available for all classes.

    Bind, try doing as the skill advises you to?

    I'd like to see Pummel in action.

    Incite reads like it could be absolutely insane.

    I'll trade you improvisedcover for repair.

    Jetwash is probably an instakill at this point in time.

    lmao at that Rouse comment.

    Track/Wipetracks might be useful in fights that aren't clunky spammy skirmishes.

    I assume Pointblank applies affs. Also, more interrupts are nice. 

    Ironsights is one of the few things that targets out of room.

    Outgunned is your class AoE, every class has them, I've seen this personally used to wipe about 3 people after a terrible misplay.

    Disrupting bullets are OP as fuck, I'm not going to explain why, but jesus christ.

    Arcing bullets is strange for Scoundrel but helps you set up for other classes.

    I'm not going to comment on the rest of your ammo types because it's absurd that you think that's bad at all.

    Your reload options all seem fair.

    As someone who's been involved in real PVP, Cover is useful, you disregard it way too much.

    Stickybomb probably combos with that ability that sets off IEDs.

    Not commenting on IEDs but those late game ones do what Nanoseers have to spend five balances to do to one target, to an entire room.



    *Sweat.*

  • Well this is absolutely hilarious to see.

    Scoundrel can deal damage to any subsystem they want to, and apply some of the best afflictions from every single list at will.
    -No damage to muscular or wetwiring -- we can target mind, senses, or internal.

    Use Suckerpunch twice?
    -Doesn't stack

    Gritblast is an AoE you use while technically off-balance if you have no other reload.
    -An AoE that does 130 damage when your opponent has 5000 health once every 20 seconds -- not great.

    Scoundrels probably have the best kit for proning and keeping enemies proned... Trip is a melee interrupt, which a lot of classes don't have.
    -Prone is an instant recover in most cases and trip does not damage, yes, in group fights it can be helpful, but does not work most of the time.

    Stim is not an "okay" heal, it's probably the best heal available for all classes.
    -Scoundrels are also stuck in light armor and have zero defensive skills, unlike nano or fury, or an automatic heal like engineers -- its OK, but nothing special.

    Bind, try doing as the skill advises you to?
    -I know what the skill says to do -- what I am saying is that the feedback from the system when your opponents internals are damaged does not align with the message. It will say "your opponent is bound for seven seconds", but it will really only bind them for a portion of that time meaning all of your skills that rely on that are not useful because they are unbound by the time you recover balance from using bind.

    I'd like to see Pummel in action.
    -I have -- its a tick for 100 damage every 1s. Unload does twice that damage and when your opponent has 4,800+ health and a passive heal that is stronger then this, I can safely say after testing that it's not good.

    Incite reads like it could be absolutely insane.
    -It doesn't really work so maybe it will be good when it does?

    I'll trade you improvisedcover for repair.
    -Repair is not great either so this is not a helpful comment.  What I am saying is that improvisedcover should probably work in rooms that do not already have cover, because otherwise, what is the point?

    Jetwash is probably an instakill at this point in time.
    -Probably, but that is a system-wide impact rather than a scoundrel specific. It is probably fine, but I just haven't been able to test.

    lmao at that Rouse comment.
    -Rouse only works on other people about 50% of the time, and gives a minor balance improvement for 30s.  It may be good for really large group combat, but rarely is it that useful because its not a guaranteed skill to work.

    Track/Wipetracks might be useful in fights that aren't clunky spammy skirmishes.
    -Agreed

    I assume Pointblank applies affs. Also, more interrupts are nice. 
    -Not that I am aware of and it has a long balance time.

    Ironsights is one of the few things that targets out of room.
    -Agreed, it targets out of room which is great. I like this skill when it works, but targeting on it was bugged before.

    Outgunned is your class AoE, every class has them, I've seen this personally used to wipe about 3 people after a terrible misplay.
    -It's not really effective though compared to inferno-type skills. It deals about 200 damage to each person from my experience.

    Disrupting bullets are OP as fuck, I'm not going to explain why, but jesus christ.
    -I'd like to see another scoundrel confirm what Wuff is trying to say here? All of the afflictions for this are far worse than every single other scoundrel affliction set barring blurry vision, but switching bullets and applying blurry vision by itself is a big loss of tempo versus trying to focus a more useful system that has any combo ability.  Sense damage has nothing else in scoundrel for the most part, so it's pointless to use these bullets.

    Arcing bullets is strange for Scoundrel but helps you set up for other classes.
    -Agreed, on it's own, arcing bullets are currently not useful  - EM damage may not really be working, so who knows though.

    I'm not going to comment on the rest of your ammo types because it's absurd that you think that's bad at all.

    Your reload options all seem fair.

    As someone who's been involved in real PVP, Cover is useful, you disregard it way too much.

    Stickybomb probably combos with that ability that sets off IEDs.

    Not commenting on IEDs but those late game ones do what Nanoseers have to spend five balances to do to one target, to an entire room.



    *Sweat.*

  • I feel zero pity. At all. The bugs will be fixed but the balancing concerns are just not there. You're playing the strongest class discounting BEAST, and we all know that BEAST right now is a mistake and will be fixed one day. Scoundrel deals the damage that a light armour class shoud be dealing, not BEAST. 

    Scoundrel's heal is the lowest cooldown out of all classes and requires no prep or resources to cast unlike Nanoseer or Engineer. It ALSO has a reduced balance time. BEAST has the same balance cost but no cooldown reduction. Fury balance is 2 seconds, but this is because of how their other balances work. Automatic heal is 14% health.

    Scoundrels have a few ways of defending themselves or disabling their foes to protect themselves. If you can't see those, I'm happy to leave a Scoundrel without them.
  • Wuff said:
    I feel zero pity. At all. The bugs will be fixed but the balancing concerns are just not there. You're playing the strongest class discounting BEAST, and we all know that BEAST right now is a mistake and will be fixed one day. Scoundrel deals the damage that a light armour class shoud be dealing, not BEAST. 

    Scoundrel's heal is the lowest cooldown out of all classes and requires no prep or resources to cast unlike Nanoseer or Engineer. It ALSO has a reduced balance time. BEAST has the same balance cost but no cooldown reduction. Fury balance is 2 seconds, but this is because of how their other balances work. Automatic heal is 14% health.

    Scoundrels have a few ways of defending themselves or disabling their foes to protect themselves. If you can't see those, I'm happy to leave a Scoundrel without them.

    lol   
  • edited January 2019
    @Wuff He wrote and addressed cover in PVE, not cover in PVP.

    (Scatterhome): You say, "Do you like things up your ass? Is your record clean? Are you looking for a job in the near future but not right now? Smuggle drugs for Solus and get stuffed across the galaxy."

  • edited January 2019
    I wrote a long post pointing out a lot of things that you overlooked in regards to interactions and it's gone. I really don't want to redo it.

    I'll just do what I can remember without the fancy quotes.

    Conceal allows you to bug rooms that contain players or sentient NPCs.

    Wipetracks actually gives you a shroud like effect. They cannot see you enter or exit the room. Also might have hid a few other things that I now forget.

    Eject doesn't lose you a reload. It gains you a reload ability. It sets your current bullets to zero. So you can fling an IED, which sets bullets to 8, then EJECT while off balance which sets bullets to zero, then you can immediately fling another bomb. It's perfect how it is and sets up combos, and will get better when they improve the glaring weakness of Improvisation as a whole.

    Ironsights currently works perfectly as far as I'm aware. It's bread and butter in PvP.

    You seem to have some confusion on IEDs. Shrapnel, Wiring, and Timer are all mods. Stickybombs is a reload ability (that sucks and should be reworked). Wiring functions how you want Timing to work. Wiring causes a bomb to repeat it's effect several times, albeit "weaker" on certain types. However it is effective with Pusher and Sleeper.

    Timer is pointless, since the delay it adds is so random you can't really work around it.

    Multibomb was a huge disappointment. No added damage or effect, it just spreads the effect to adjacent rooms. If it increased the effect and damage, it could be useful with Timer so you could flee the explosion. As it is now it has a separate cooldown from Trigger so in a pinch it could be useful to get off another Pusher.

    Trigger doesn't hit you or targets behind cover. Also triggered pushers do not hit you even outside of cover, nor does Shrieker if you have no mind afflictions. If you have wiring on the pusher, subsequent ticks can hit you. Trigger has moderate use with Sleeper with Wiring.

    Tripwire is a lot of fun, but it's current implementation leaves something to be desired. First of all, why do I trigger my own tripwires? How clumsy am I exactly to step on a tripwire I just placed? Not much of a Scoundrel, more of a bumbling idiot.

    Secondly I feel tripwires should interrupt crashing. The balance on tripwire is so long that if I had the foresight to place one midcombat, I should be rewarded, not punished. As it stands now, they crash out, avoiding it, and when you follow you now trip your own tripwire, both being interrupted and taking the effect. You will trigger a tripwire if you crash into a room containing a tripwire, but you will not trigger one in the room as you crash out. This interaction feels weird.

    Pusher bomb is pretty good in PvP. It's a shame they had to nerf it to no longer affect any NPC. But in PvP, it is useful for splitting up a gank squad of followers.

    Wiring has some bizarre effects. If you Fling a wired bomb at someone, then they leave the room, subsequent ticks hit you (or another random target if you are not alone). This doesn't seem intended as Fling is supposed to be single target. Also if someone hits a tripwired bomb that has wiring, then leaves the room, again it starts hitting you.

    Other than that, I mostly agree with you.

    On another note, the syntax for making bombs should be IED CONSTRUCT <1-20> <Bomb Type> WITH <Bomb Mod>. As it stands now, making bombs is just a huge pain in the ass and time waster. I mean I'm going to prep them all anyway, except I have to waste 1-4 hours of my time a day not having fun. It just encourages AFK bomb crafting.

    Also cover doesn't appear to be functioning as intended. As far as I've tested, using a melee ability or having a melee ability used on you, does not seem to bring you out of cover. I don't think this is intended at all. Especially when the HELP PROPS file seems to suggest that you cannot melee while in cover, and that being melee'd should break your cover.
  • edited January 2019
    There is no option to delete comments?
  • I posted a previous thread with skills that were redundant due to it being in skirmishing or exploration. I do think those should be fixed but everyone has their own opinions. Just because one person thinks this class is decent already does not mean it truly is.

    There are some glaringly large flaws to some of the mechanics and I do think they should be fixed. That being said everyone is still trying to figure stuff out regarding combat. Instead of shooting things down immediately  we should be sharing what we know then coming up with solutions rather than angry shit posting.
    (Scatterhome): You say, "Do you like things up your ass? Is your record clean? Are you looking for a job in the near future but not right now? Smuggle drugs for Solus and get stuffed across the galaxy."



  • Stim is not an "okay" heal, it's probably the best heal available for all classes.
    -Scoundrels are also stuck in light armor and have zero defensive skills, unlike nano or fury, or an automatic heal like engineers -- its OK, but nothing special.

    Bind, try doing as the skill advises you to?
    -I know what the skill says to do -- what I am saying is that the feedback from the system when your opponents internals are damaged does not align with the message. It will say "your opponent is bound for seven seconds", but it will really only bind them for a portion of that time meaning all of your skills that rely on that are not useful because they are unbound by the time you recover balance from using bind.



    I'm not sure what defensive options you think fury has that are better than sleep bombs. Wasting 10 rage for just a damage resistance? :(

    I would trade fury defense for scoundrel defense any day. Suffuse is nice, since it's quick, but sleep seems amazing in this game.

    It sounds like bind is just bugged, based on your description, which isn't really a balancing concern (just a bug).

  • edited January 2019
    Thanks for pointing out eject as an extra reload - now that I use IEDs because they are easier to make, I see this being useful — before I was doing sucker punch, spin, or mag toss and those options do less damage than crack shot so I saw reloading early on as a scoundrel being a negative.  With a reliable way to add mods in bulk to IEDs, eject would be great as-is.

    Wipe Tracks also seems useful with the shroud effect.  Is that in the AB file or just found via testing?

    I agree with the comments on tripwire too - even with treading, I still set off my own tripwires.  This seems like a bug fix rather than any functional change.

    I am hoping to get some time in the arena soon to do some more testing.  

    My comments on defense abilities ties mostly relate to PVE because currently I still die frequently to mobs in the 65-Any bracket when using all of my abilities, cooldowns, and being at maximum health.  The other classes I see in these areas are able to function and clear mobs that I cannot reliably clear.

    The goal of this post was to look at all the scoundrel skills and their overall uses - if other classes have skills that are not useful in practice feel free to make your own class posts and mention cases where there are options in your skill trees that will never really see use because they are subpar compared to something else available earlier in the tree or duplicated somewhere else.





  • edited January 2019
    Try reading, ty. next.

    Maruna said:
    Disrupting bullets isn't that good, aside from doing sensory subsystem damage. Which is pointless anyway since it doesn't actually do much for Scoundrel in the grand scheme of things. Mind/Internal is better in literally every scenario. Especially mind since once mind is drained you have probably ~20 seconds or so before your wetwiring gets hard locked and you die. Unless the Scoundrel you're fighting is absolutely awful and lets you regenerate.
    Courtesy of Rahk: here's pummel, if you wanna say it's good:
    Keep in mind the requirements for being able to use pummel in the first place, and it still being so laughably bad.  Hard to take someone seriously when they've done literally nothing in the game outside of a few cosmpiercers.
    Scoundrel has a few ways to defend themselves, I'll give you that. None of which apply at all in PvE, however, and are niche at best in PvP. Scoundrels are pretty decent, but like every other class they also have some pretty glaring flaws. Arguing they don't is ignorant at best, classes are getting loads of changes for a reason. Scoundrel included.
    Maybe actually discuss things like the thread is for, rather than just shooting down everything everyone says because you have a hardon for people who play Scoundrel, and are trying to get it to a state everyone- including non-Scoundrels- are happy with. So far you've contributed nothing except whinging and moaning, despite not actually playing the game all that much.
    If you don't know why Sensory is good then you're just bad and I'm glad you'll never learn how to use it in PVP.


    lmao at the little crew over there, get lives, thx.


    I love the jabs about how I'm inexperienced and don't understand the balance of the game and all this thick guru-crap you keep trying to pull. None of you are anybody ingame, and you're barely even known in your home MUDs, so get out.
  • The wipe tracks is a one time use though, that you have to use within 30 seconds. So it's meh, but still better than what many people initially think it is, and literally wiping your tracks. You won't leave tracks in the room when you use it when you leave, but if your tracks were already there they will stay.
  • Wuff said:

    I love the jabs about how I'm inexperienced and don't understand the balance of the game and all this thick guru-crap you keep trying to pull. None of you are anybody ingame, and you're barely even known in your home MUDs, so get out.
    Lol. "I love the little jabs", makes jabs. 

    congratulations-you-played-yourself-35463334
    Eukelade gives you a peck on the cheek.
  • edited January 2019
    Wuff said:

    If you don't know why Sensory is good then you're just bad and I'm glad you'll never learn how to use it in PVP.


    lmao at the little crew over there, get lives, thx.


    I love the jabs about how I'm inexperienced and don't understand the balance of the game and all this thick guru-crap you keep trying to pull. None of you are anybody ingame, and you're barely even known in your home MUDs, so get out.
    I literally just explained what sensory was and why internal and mind are both vastly superior. I'll happily 1v1 you if you like.

    Also that little statement at the end is just hilarious considering you were permanently banned in achaea for this exact sort of behaviour. Not to mention shrubbed in every other game. It's like you never learn. You're not exactly renowned as a very good pker yourself, cupcake.

    I like how you can't even discuss your thought process when you get told you're wrong. It's just straight to personal attacks, condescension and general snarky asshattery with you. You could really do with some self reflection.
  • I... Haven't been permanently banned in Achaea...?

    Or shrubbed in other games...?

    Uh? 

    ...

    ???

    Thanks for that, now I know people have been shitstirring. 

    This thread is really not the place for it, if you want to continue elsewhere then carry on, but ew.
  • edited January 2019
    Nah. You gave yourself away day 1 as to who you were. I didn't need anyone telling me that.
    Sticks out like a sore thumb. Shit-flinging and derailing threads is your MO. Don't try and turn it back around when it comes back to bite you, thanks.
    Here's the kinda person you're arguing with, ladies and gentlemen.


  • edited January 2019
    You going to throw out a name?

    Do it.

    Edit: You saved that snip days ago... You didn't just go to fetch that. Really not the place to have this discussion, but carry on showing yourself up.

    Edit Edit: Who derailed a thread to accuse someone of being someone that they're not? That's... You.

    Edit Edit Edit: Not posting to stop annoying people with alerts or whatever. You're literally nothing but a bunch of sad trolls.

    Edit Edit Edit Edit: Personal attacks!!! You are an absolute joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • edited January 2019
    Wuff said:
    Who derailed a thread
    At least you took the personal attacks to messages, though. That was sweet of you.
    Thanks for pointing out eject as an extra reload - now that I use IEDs because they are easier to make, I see this being useful — before I was doing sucker punch, spin, or mag toss and those options do less damage than crack shot so I saw reloading early on as a scoundrel being a negative.  With a reliable way to add mods in bulk to IEDs, eject would be great as-is.

    Eject is great in PvP. I haven't found too much use for it in PvE outside of having 1 shot left and doubleshot just coming off cd, since you can eject while off balance and shrapnel to finish off the mob without having to reload. And then just rapidfiring immediately on the next mob. In PvP it's good for an on-demand sleeper, if you still have half your clip left.

    I agree with the comments on tripwire too - even with treading, I still set off my own tripwires.  This seems like a bug fix rather than any functional change.
    Not sure if it's a bug or not, it does say anyone. Doesn't specifically exclude the Scoundrel in that 'anyone' but I guess it could be. I haven't messed around much with non-flung IEDs yet.
  • Wuff said:

    blah blah blah
    Damn bro, she just pushed your unicorns right on in.
  • Has anyone been able to get use from infusing bullets?  

    I was doing the math yesterday and it seems generally worse to use them then not.

    Stupefy requires 25% mind damage (14 bullets minimum because of wet wiring regen).  Then you can stick 5 infusing bullets for stupefy which increases further damage by 50% (3% per bullet).  However, the stupefy bullets do not harm systems, so you are losing 10% mind damage for the switch.  Therefore, you need to shoot ten more mind bullets just to catch-up.  Shooting 10 more mind bullets takes around 25 seconds and the affliction only lasts 30 seconds, so there seems to be mathematically very little reason not to just keep shooting impairing bullets and deal actual mind damage to cause further system feedback earlier?  Given the loss of 2s of balance to switch bullet types, you are unlikely to see any benefit at all from this approach.

    Potential changes to make this useful would be to extend the duration on stupefy to 45-60 seconds to provide a return on stupefy.

    Increase the mind damage increase of stupefy from 10% to 15-20%.  

    Remove the 25% minimum subsystem damage for stupefy to stick.

    Add some mind damage from the application of stupefy itself.

    Any of those four adjustments would make adding the complexity of infusing bullets to PvP worthwhile from a mathematical perspective.

    The same changes to stupefy would also apply to the other types of subsystem damage increase afflictions.

    We tested this yesterday in the arena to confirm the mechanics of how infusing damage works.

    If I overlooked anything on this one from a mechanics perspective, please feel free to correct it.

    Thanks!
  • -- Updates - #48 --------------------------------------------------------------

    Date:     01/03/2019 at 02:45

    Author:   Tecton, the Singularity

    Subject:  Scoundrel IEDs.


    We've just overhauled the IED construction and storage system, making it a little more intuitive,

    and reducing inventory clutter from having dozens, or in at least one person's case, tens of 

    thousands of IEDs *glare* in your inventory.


    If you've played a tarot-wielding class in Achaea, this mechanic is similar to tarot decks there,

    where you store the items in a non-inventory location. In Scoundrel's case, this in in your 

    bandolier! Your bandolier will allow you to store up to 500 of each IED type/mod combination (So 500 

    unmodified rippers, 500 rippers with wiring, 500 rippers with shrapnel etc.)


    All Scoundrels have been given a bandolier and their existing IEDs have been moved into this storage

    mechanism. Excess IEDs were safely disposed of.


    Additionally:

    - BANDOLIERS ability has been added to the Improvisation skill. IED CONTENTS, IED STORE, and IED

    REMOVE have been added.

    - Keeping with the improvised theme, IEDs are now built from junk in your inventory. You now IED

    CONSTRUCT <IED> FROM <junk> - the number of IEDs scales up with the value of the junk.

    - IEDs are automatically pulled from your bandolier when you use an improvisation ability.

    - IEDs are automatically stored in your bandolier upon construction (if possible).

    - IEDs will be used from your inventory first.

    - IEDs not stored in your bandolier will fall from your hands when you die/logout.

    - Having a bunch of IEDs in your inventory can cause you to fumble your Improvisation abilities, due

    to the clutter.

    - Most abilities have been modified to support multi-word IED types to preselect an IED/Mod

    combination. You can now IED LOB SHRAPNEL RIPPER EAST for example.


    We hope these changes make things a little more streamlined for our swarthy scoundrels - enjoy!




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Tecton clarified in Discord that the exchange rate is 2 marks per IED. So, for example, a 50 mark piece of junk would net you 25 IEDs.
    Eukelade gives you a peck on the cheek.
  • edited January 2019
    Has anyone been able to get use from infusing bullets? 
    You only need to 'catch up' if they expended balance to WW MEND MIND while you were shooting stupefy bullets. I've definitely found using them to be more useful than not, it's good if you know they already have all the impairing afflictions already. Using them allows you to push towards amplifying bullets quicker, particularly if they're using WW MEND in between you shooting the stupefy bullets. Worth noting after the initial 5 you only have to shoot once every 30 seconds to renew the timer.
    It's 1s to switch ammo, by the way. Not 2.
    Personally I don't think the mind route needs any alterations as is. It's good without being ridiculously broken (if you're mending correctly). Stupidity should be lower than it is, though, when it comes to automatic afflictions. Making stupefy bullets cause mind damage is a lot more potent than you think it would be, in practice (ignoring the 'mathematical' thing).
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