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New patch broke the game for grouping completely.

https://imgur.com/a/InJUhjA

I'm trying to hunt a level 40-50 area at level 40 and I'm doing about a third of my damage.

So I can no longer hunt with my friends, or in my level range.  I could solo this stuff before.

And now I definitely can't hunt with my level 27 partner.  Us 3 friends were really enjoying being able to hunt together...

Why?  Please put it back.  I know you want to stop a lowbie death ball, but please don't kill grouping completely...

I'm going to go cry now, bye.
Download Montem System for Nexus Client - https://pastebin.com/MBEn7S0u

Comments

  • They broke it for some of us solo too. Right before christmas, I hope that doesn't mean 3+ days till a fix and we can play the game again...
  • I just widened the window by a decent margin, which should alleviate some of the problems, and we're constantly monitoring it!
  • @Tecton
    I feel like this could do with another sizeable widening, 10-15 levels' worth. I can't move up a single level bracket when I'm only a few levels away from that bracket to begin with, because the majority of things I was hitting had 50% damage resistance and affliction immunity. Given that xp scales off damage and affliction output, I cannot reasonably bash with a friend that's only slightly stronger than me, because my xp is heavily reduced, and going down an level bracket would reduce their xp. This is in an area I was, prior to this patch, able to solo anyway, if I went slow. I can appreciate the issue that a swarm of level 20s in a level 70 area presents for xp balance, but this punishes bashing across the board. There must be a more elegant solution than just level gating.

    Maybe make more of the high level area mobs' attacks AoE? Don't make them high damaging for the area, just normal damage attacks that a level-appropriate character could withstand without too much issue that would knock a heavily underleveled character out of the park. 

    Whatever you decide, I hope this patch gets a little lighter. I was really excited for the synergy you could pull off in Starmourn, and the fact that it didn't punish group bashing like the other IRE games, which is probably my favourite aspect of any MMO. 
  • It doesn't kick in until 10 levels above your current level, for what it's worth.
  • Tecton said:
    It doesn't kick in until 10 levels above your current level, for what it's worth.
    Are you sure? Cause I was level 26 in a level 30 area and my damage shot down to 91 per attack for several mobs. Might not be working as intended, dunno.
  • edited December 2018
    @Montem So two things, one the crested eagle that you are fighting is the top tier enemies in that area it was still granting me experience at 50 so if you are 10 levels under that that's why the damage is so weak (also remember to stack freeze)  @Tecton My only problem with this is the enemies are not consistent in each area hunt so you can't find a group of enemies level 50-60 to fight.  for example, i went to the quarry found no enemies i can hit with legit damage and at the desert it was some enemies weaker (don't know how) many enemies much stronger and few enemies just as strong.  Also Also, this hurts 98 percent of the hunters because the 2 percent people storm through and now they are at a point in leveling it doesn't matter also something that confuses me   Well this change broke me with only two areas I could hunt and now i can't hunt anything mostly the few enemies I could find and the saturated areas now with other hunters being there. 
  • edited December 2018
    Halcyon said:
    Tecton said:
    It doesn't kick in until 10 levels above your current level, for what it's worth.
    Are you sure? Cause I was level 26 in a level 30 area and my damage shot down to 91 per attack for several mobs. Might not be working as intended, dunno.
    I've adjusted and tweaked a few things tonight, but that's what it currently is, yes. 
  • Sagex said:
    @Montem So two things, one the crested eagle that you are fighting is the top tier enemies in that area it was still granting me experience at 50 so if you are 10 levels under that that's why the damage is so weak (also remember to stack freeze)  @Tecton My only problem with this is the enemies are not consistent in each area hunt so you can't find a group of enemies level 50-60 to fight.  for example, i went to the quarry found no enemies i can hit with legit damage and at the desert it was some enemies weaker (don't know how) many enemies much stronger and few enemies just as strong.  Also Also, this hurts 98 percent of the hunters because the 2 percent people storm through and now they are at a point in leveling it doesn't matter also something that confuses me   Well this change broke me with only two areas I could hunt and now i can't hunt anything mostly the few enemies I could find and the saturated areas now with other hunters being there. 

    You know stacking freeze doesn't actually increase the damage you do, right?

    Yeah this change basically seems to have fucked up everyone to deal with one niche issue, similar to how Pollivar and Locke's exploit was solved by stopping out of room abilities, instead of just giving mobs ranged attacks or something. Too many clutch fixes early on will ruin this for everyone that comes later.
  • edited December 2018
    Don't tell me to 'remember to stack freeze' hahaha. You can see in my screenshot my damage is being boosted by freeze. I used to solo those.

    Since people can't group now everyone is solo hunting in their 'correct' areas and the areas are again flooded.

    Whatever change was made to increase the margin doesn't see to have effected me in anyway.
    Download Montem System for Nexus Client - https://pastebin.com/MBEn7S0u
  • Wuff said:
    Sagex said:
    @Montem So two things, one the crested eagle that you are fighting is the top tier enemies in that area it was still granting me experience at 50 so if you are 10 levels under that that's why the damage is so weak (also remember to stack freeze)  @Tecton My only problem with this is the enemies are not consistent in each area hunt so you can't find a group of enemies level 50-60 to fight.  for example, i went to the quarry found no enemies i can hit with legit damage and at the desert it was some enemies weaker (don't know how) many enemies much stronger and few enemies just as strong.  Also Also, this hurts 98 percent of the hunters because the 2 percent people storm through and now they are at a point in leveling it doesn't matter also something that confuses me   Well this change broke me with only two areas I could hunt and now i can't hunt anything mostly the few enemies I could find and the saturated areas now with other hunters being there. 

    You know stacking freeze doesn't actually increase the damage you do, right?

    Yeah this change basically seems to have fucked up everyone to deal with one niche issue, similar to how Pollivar and Locke's exploit was solved by stopping out of room abilities, instead of just giving mobs ranged attacks or something. Too many clutch fixes early on will ruin this for everyone that comes later.
    First freeze with swarm 318 damage, second freeze with swarm 352 damage 
  • Montem said:
    Don't tell me to 'remember to stack freeze' hahaha. You can see in my screenshot my damage is being boosted by freeze. I used to solo those.

    Since people can't group now everyone is solo hunting in their 'correct' areas and the areas are again flooded.

    Whatever change was made to increase the margin doesn't see to have effected me in anyway.
     i'm sayng the change made it to where you are doing less damage because of your level and the eagles are level 50  
  • I appreciate the changes - there may need to be a few tweaks because there are really strong enemies in some areas that are not possible to kill for players of the correct level, but a group of 8-9 players that are level 20 camping the level 65-75 end-game zones is not what was intended by group hunting.

    The intention is that you fight things fairy close to your level and they can tweak the experience gained at each level and the ranges to make it worthwhile.
  • I appreciate the changes - there may need to be a few tweaks because there are really strong enemies in some areas that are not possible to kill for players of the correct level, but a group of 8-9 players that are level 20 camping the level 65-75 end-game zones is not what was intended by group hunting.

    The intention is that you fight things fairy close to your level and they can tweak the experience gained at each level and the ranges to make it worthwhile.
    I've solo hunted and stayed in areas until my level was enough. such as i wouldn't move to a level 50 aea until i was level 50 but now because of the changes i can't
  • edited December 2018
    I appreciate the changes - there may need to be a few tweaks because there are really strong enemies in some areas that are not possible to kill for players of the correct level, but a group of 8-9 players that are level 20 camping the level 65-75 end-game zones is not what was intended by group hunting.

    The intention is that you fight things fairy close to your level and they can tweak the experience gained at each level and the ranges to make it worthwhile.
    Yeah, I'm all about stopping the abuse.  But not people able to play with two friends sucks.

    Tested the Greatwilds again at 41 - I can only damage about half the mobs in here - everything else takes way less damage.  They can't possibly be 10 levels higher than me in a 41-50 zone, right? Where am I supposed to hunt?  This is so borked.
    Download Montem System for Nexus Client - https://pastebin.com/MBEn7S0u
  • Montem said:
    I appreciate the changes - there may need to be a few tweaks because there are really strong enemies in some areas that are not possible to kill for players of the correct level, but a group of 8-9 players that are level 20 camping the level 65-75 end-game zones is not what was intended by group hunting.

    The intention is that you fight things fairy close to your level and they can tweak the experience gained at each level and the ranges to make it worthwhile.
    Yeah, I'm all about stopping the abuse.  But not people able to play with two friends sucks.

    Tested the Greatwilds again at 41 - I can only damage about half the mobs in here - everything else takes way less damage.  They can't possibly be 10 levels higher than me in a 41-50 zone, right? Where am I supposed to hunt?  This is so borked.
    I understand the pain, i'm back now at the  wilds when i should of been in the desert or quarry but i can't kill anything there either it's a really breaking change for hunters 
  • edited December 2018
    There were creatures in the Greenwilds that were higher than the listed zone level - some of the areas are not 100% completely marked accurately in AREAS.

    I know this because they dropped equipment for the higher zone level than what was listed.

    The same goes for the Scorpian Birds in Sasker Jungle too.  I’m not sure how the changes impacted those.

    It almost feels like 20 levels lower should be the near hard cutoff for an area.  This should cover the outlier denizons, but also allow some grouping of spacers.
  • I'm not sure drops are a reliable indicator of mob level.  I've seen rats and robots drop gear out of level range.  Whether that's intended as a function of drop RNG tables or a bug, I'm uncertain.
  • edited December 2018
    So my wife is 14 levels below me.  I'm 44 and she's 30.  We can't hunt greatwilds together.  This really freaking sucks.  She does 1 damage.  They are less then 20 levels above her.  Come on guys, please no.

    One of main things I loved about Starmourn was that we could group and actually do things together.  It's completely broken now.
    Download Montem System for Nexus Client - https://pastebin.com/MBEn7S0u
  • As I see it, here are the problems we faced with the old system:
    1) Mobs are worth more experience the lower level you are. That means if a level 1 person kills the same mob as a level 50 person, the level 1 person would get multiple times the experience. I am talking about the actual number of experience points, available in the gmcp.Char.Vitals.xp. A lot of people think this just means it is a larger % for the level 1 than then level 50, but this is not true. It is both that the actual experience gain is higher and lower levels requiring less experience so it being a higher % until their next level.
    2) Most mobs attack fairly slow. You can generally attack 1-2 times for each attack. This includes the initial attack. This means there is a window where if you can just pile on enough damage, the mob doesn't even get a chance to attack.
    3) On top of the above, hp scaling is fairly flat, so even if you get attacked once by a level 60 mob as a level 20 character, chances are you're not going to die. This extends the window where you can pile on the damage.

    Points 2 and 3 make bashing in a group much easier than bashing solo. Even with 2 people, you can punch way above your weight by just crashing out after a hit while the other person continues to attack. With 10 people, you can probably kill the mob before they get a chance to attack. Compare this to someone trying to bash mobs at level needing to crash out once or twice and spend balances and time healing between each mob. On top of this, we have point 1, which means that not only is doing this much easier than someone at-level bashing solo, but the reward can be multiple times better as well.

    I don't think we have the ideal fix yet, but these things are what this is trying to address.
  • Did anyone ever actually confirm that mobs were worth more or was that just a baseless assumption that was made?

    Mobs in the groups always attacked.

    People in the zerg groups did die, semi-frequently.

    There are better fixes than what we have.
  • Just wanted to mention, in order to play with my wife, we hunted Golpur all night so that she could get xp, while I stunted my damage.  I'm level 48 and shes's 31, so I guess this is what we have to do to play together?  She does 1-30 damage to things in Greenwilds.  Oh also, I get barely any xp.

    Can we fix this now?  I'm so sad.
    Download Montem System for Nexus Client - https://pastebin.com/MBEn7S0u
  • Montem said:
    Can we fix this now?  I'm so sad.
    No.
  • it's pretty bad. I can't hunt anything decent without dying, and feel like the stuff I /can/ hunt just isn't worth it.

    Hunting feels like a complete waste of time, despite levels being needed to do anything productive, from combat to cosmpiercers, to learning skills. Slowing players down only frustrates us and makes the people that CAN grind non-stop to the max level that much more OP.

    Please make it possible to actually level at a decent rate, we want to enjoy the game, not grind endlessly to be able to actually compete.
  • also can we get faster spawn rates on the two level 50 areas? it's so filled with people it's annoying 
  • Tecton said:
    I just reduced the severity of the scaling on this across the board, so it will come in more gradually now rather than a tonne of bricks. 
    Thank you so much!
    Download Montem System for Nexus Client - https://pastebin.com/MBEn7S0u
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