An artifact that lets you make your own mindsim personality so you don't need to script to have one. Maybe with a way to have it become an official personality upon admin approval (could be an upgrade of the personal edition).
1. Cloaking device. Something akin to invisibility but with limited uses per day and cool-downs.
2. Personal teleport device (ability to teleport to players or a marked area) perhaps not limited in uses but certainly more cool downs that what the class skills can do, however perhaps no delays in using them.
How do you expect them to make the money needed to pay Admin and keep the server going?
Tell that to 500 credits currently on the market, and that's not counting whatever people spent on lessons for themselves.
People will buy creds no matter what, artifacts or no. Also minor quality of life or customization artifacts are fine but no game changers please. To bring up a few examples...
1. Cloaking device. Something akin to invisibility but with limited uses per day and cool-downs.
2. Personal teleport device (ability to teleport to players or a marked area) perhaps not limited in uses but certainly more cool downs that what the class skills can do, however perhaps no delays in using them.
No. Just no. Anyone who played an IRE game for 5 minutes can tell you why either is a bad idea.
I personally want them to do the whole gamut of artifacts (tailored for science fiction) like in their other IRE games. No reason to buy credits if there really isn't anything to look forward to purchase. I don't care if people have more artifacts than I do (Though,I have to admit very few would), nor do I care if they have a benefit greater than mine in combat from said artifacts. They earned it by buying credits that supports the game's development and paid personnel.
You’d have a significant drop off in players. The game upon confirmation was touted as being a different pay model. I know lots of people that will retire to SM, but have no intentions of buying several thousand dollars worth of artefacts again. I know I don’t. I’d be okay with the same setup if all prices are reduced dramatically. That isn’t the case, though, as the credit prices are the same. It’s simply not financially viable for me to spend $200-300+ at a time, when I can put that money to much better use. The majority of the player base aren’t 16-22 anymore. I’m at a point in Achaea where anything I want to buy will cost me upwards of $400. SM needs to avoid the same problems
If the pay model is touted to be different, then yes some will leave who had hoped it would be less costly to play than other IRE games. Then again, some will leave anyway for various other reasons. Whether something is financially viable for you to spend is not actually what is important to a business. You get to play essentially on the dime of others, but that business still needs to make income in order to pay salaries and other operating costs. With nothing to sale, the game then has no real means of generating income unless they go to some fee based system. I may be incorrect, but I do believe IRE is hoping to make a profit off of Starmourn.
Also, it seems your connection between disposable income and age is inverted. It is not the younger players who have the funds to spare, it is the older players who have already established careers who can afford to make the purchases. It is the 16 - 22 year olds who probably have more time than money compared to those who are older. I know in my instance, $400 dollars is not that onerous for me, though it can be for those far less established than I. Though time is more of a problem for me, I don't begrudge those with more time the benefits they gain by being able to play in longer sessions.
So, to wrap up. Those with more money than time keep the game afloat, while those with more time than money help keep it populated? Both are important, but if there is nothing to spend credits on, money, then there is no way the game can pay for continued development and operating costs.
I’m really hoping we see what credits are good for beyond lessons before the retirement window opens up. I’m leaning toward retiring here, but I don’t want the window to shut before seeing what we can do with the credits.
An artifact that lets you make your own mindsim personality so you don't need to script to have one. Maybe with a way to have it become an official personality upon admin approval (could be an upgrade of the personal edition).
Yeah, I was actually looking at external API calls to "upgrade" my mindsim to tell me jokes but all I found were APIs for really painful Chuck Norris jokes and a lot of the entertainment APIs are visual things; I guess your mindsim could still pull up a random picture of a cat for you halfway through your bashing trip :chuffed:
How do you expect them to make the money needed to pay Admin and keep the server going?
Tell that to 500 credits currently on the market, and that's not counting whatever people spent on lessons for themselves.
People will buy creds no matter what, artifacts or no. Also minor quality of life or customization artifacts are fine but no game changers please. To bring up a few examples...
What happens once all of the skills are trained up, what are those credits useful for then? Also, you seriously think 500 credits is going to pay for operating costs and continued development? 500 credits converts to about $168.99. That is a pittance. If you said there were over 20000 credits (about $6000 worth) on the market, then you would have been showing something. Even then, that would have just been this month. The Devs pay their bills and eat for a month, but since there is no real reason to purchase anymore credits after you have all of your skills trained the credit purchase drops down to minute amounts. On the amounts you think are significant, the paid developers could qualify for SNAP.
@Uachet I'm going to venture a guess here that the devs get paid off more than just "how much money did Starmourn bring in" since it's been in development for 3 years (aka making no money) prior to launch, and they aren't begging on the streets afaik.
@Tye No, they were probably being supported by IRE, which makes money by credit sales. I am guessing, IRE would like for Starmourn to stand on its own feet/tentacles/treds/whatever.
Do not get me wrong, I am not all 'Hurrah! Let's add pay-to-win!' But I do realize they need artifacts/customization/credits sinks to keep the lights on long term.
Artifact that allows for one additional oblivion mark and/or doesn't erase them when used.
Space map expansion artifact - restores space map to original size despite server-side shrinkage
Summon repair drones - x1/hr, while in space, can summon a swarm of repair drones to provide enough restoration to limp back to a station. Does not work in combat or within 3min of last combat.
Summon mobile astromech - x1/hr, while in space, can summon a wandering astromech drone to temporarily attach to the ship and use repairkits from ship cargo. Especially useful if your astromech is blasted off. Does not work in combat and combat can cause the astromech to immediately detach and leave.
Mobile refineries. Can only be attached to large ships due to energy, capacity, etc. reqs. Only one can be equipped at a time as a component (mobile refineries stored on stations have no upkeep costs). Available in every flavor of raw material. While active, causes a drain of ship resources, making it impossible or nearly impossible for the ship to move, restore shields, activate modules, charge the capacitor, etc.
Unique (raffled/auctioned???) superstructures and components.
Artifact to change the messaging of ship weapons. (I want a rainbow of pew-pew!)
Credits on market, especially at the opening of a game, are usually for people like me who would rather drop real life money than spend hours bashing or questing to get marks when there is a scarcity.There’s also a finite number of skills to spend credits on. That’s not even including Hacking or Captaincy, which can’t be bought. So if you’re going to have continued revenue from a game in a year or two years, you need other things for players to spend credits on. Hence artifacts are needed to continue to drive sales.
I don’t get this hatred of artifacts outside of lootbox sales and some of the weapon/stat increasers in other games that essentially make combat have an expensive baseline. IRE is a business first and foremost: They’re trying to make money by providing a product that has a demand. Artifacts have a demand overall even if specific people have no demand for it because a lot of people like playing these games in their leisure time and it’s a worthwhile investment for entertainment.
So yeah, if you want to play Starmourn and have it be the same sort of fun game we’ve found it to be, you need those people buying artifacts to keep the ability to have a paid staff spending hours over a weekend tweaking and fixing the game so that you can continue to enjoy it.
All that that being said, I do think artifacts here will be more along the lines of QoL type stuff and not the gaudy stat or damage increases in other games.
So, to wrap up. Those with more money than time keep the game afloat, while those with more time than money help keep it populated? Both are important, but if there is nothing to spend credits on, money, then there is no way the game can pay for continued development and operating costs.
I agree with everything you said, I’ve made the same argument plenty of times regarding business sustainability. My point about age wasn’t due to expendable income, more the mindset behind it. Yes I have much more expendable income than I did even 5 years ago, but I also have many more avenues to spend that money. After a certain point the cost versus benefit doesn’t weigh out. I don’t fault anyone for wanting to support the game, I certainly do. I bought all the no brainers, and an elite, within the first 3 days of playing. I’m hoping to see a better system than has been used elsewhere, is all.
So, to wrap up. Those with more money than time keep the game afloat, while those with more time than money help keep it populated? Both are important, but if there is nothing to spend credits on, money, then there is no way the game can pay for continued development and operating costs.
I agree with everything you said, I’ve made the same argument plenty of times regarding business sustainability. My point about age wasn’t due to expendable income, more the mindset behind it. Yes I have much more expendable income than I did even 5 years ago, but I also have many more avenues to spend that money. After a certain point the cost versus benefit doesn’t weigh out. I don’t fault anyone for wanting to support the game, I certainly do. I bought all the no brainers, and an elite, within the first 3 days of playing. I’m hoping to see a better system than has been used elsewhere, is all.
I’m hoping that there will be something to spend bound credits from elite on here soon
These are things I don’t necessarily want but expect to see
once Artefacts go live anyways.
Scalable weapons and armor. These items increase in level
with you and the power level rises accordingly. Maxes out at max level with max
power for the weapon/armor piece.
Stats reset artefact, akin to trait reset. 1 time use and as
often as you like versions.
Reincarnations will probably be a thing with matching
arties.
Artie ships. Haven’t really gotten around to ship stuff in
game yet, but anything a non-artie ship can do these will do better.
Something to do with mitigating clone costs, as mentioned
previously in the thread.
Now for something I would like to see.
Programmable holograms. Various uses like say someone is
chasing me, but I drop my hologram and keep booking. They run in the room I
dropped the hologram module and my hologram engages them like a real player.
Maybe it glitches or something as a giveaway.
Could also be useful as a marketing tool or a guide post of
sorts.
Holo-adds. Drop them in a location and once every 5 min or so, it'll do an emote that they set up. (lasts a RL day before resetting to inventory, or something)
For every player happy with the existence of a high pay wall where they can throw their money at, there exists an unknown number who would turn away. If these unknown number had stayed because they perceive the pay model to be reasonable, they would have made the world that much more alive. A livelier world that can in the future attract more players with new high spenders and good roleplayers in their midst. They can also, without any qualms, introduce the game that they deem healthy without unsavoury gambling aspects to friends and family.
Someone said in another ire forum something along the lines of - you can't make money out of the game if you kill it. They were mostly referring to the monthly promotions/ promotion items that I believe is a slippery trap. I agree with them, but only the company knows. Monthly promotions for the other ire games have been around for quite some years now so I think ire can have a better idea on their long terms effects. If Starmourn is indeed going for a different model as someone mentioned, then I feel quite optimistic that they will/have consider the feedback they get from players in the other games.
For every player happy with the existence of a high pay wall where they can throw their money at, there exists an unknown number who would turn away. If these unknown number had stayed because they perceive the pay model to be reasonable, they would have made the world that much more alive. A livelier world that can in the future attract more players with new high spenders and good roleplayers in their midst. They can also, without any qualms, introduce the game that they deem healthy without unsavoury gambling aspects to friends and family.
Someone said in another ire forum something along the lines of - you can't make money out of the game if you kill it. They were mostly referring to the monthly promotions/ promotion items that I believe is a slippery trap. I agree with them, but only the company knows. Monthly promotions for the other ire games have been around for quite some years now so I think ire can have a better idea on their long terms effects. If Starmourn is indeed going for a different model as someone mentioned, then I feel quite optimistic that they will/have consider the feedback they get from players in the other games.
I agree that both are needed for a truly living world. I was taking issue with the nonsense that artifacts or other means to spend credits aren't needed. They are. One of the reasons why I have bought credits and have a subscription now...have to support that which you love and enjoy, especially if others can't.
For every player happy with the existence of a high pay wall where they can throw their money at, there exists an unknown number who would turn away. If these unknown number had stayed because they perceive the pay model to be reasonable, they would have made the world that much more alive. A livelier world that can in the future attract more players with new high spenders and good roleplayers in their midst. They can also, without any qualms, introduce the game that they deem healthy without unsavoury gambling aspects to friends and family.
Someone said in another ire forum something along the lines of - you can't make money out of the game if you kill it. They were mostly referring to the monthly promotions/ promotion items that I believe is a slippery trap. I agree with them, but only the company knows. Monthly promotions for the other ire games have been around for quite some years now so I think ire can have a better idea on their long terms effects. If Starmourn is indeed going for a different model as someone mentioned, then I feel quite optimistic that they will/have consider the feedback they get from players in the other games.
Another important question is what do those who are not willing to spend much consider reasonable? Will the type of items they want available be enough to sustain the game? Also, the subject is mainly about types of Artifacts, so unsavory gambling aspects are another issue. With Artifacts, you know what you are getting before you purchase them. No gambling involved.
@kamdian I agree. No artie isn't practical. The originator of that idea is most likely joking I think.
@Uachet For your questions, my opinion is, players with the time should be able to slowly acquire arties by their in game efforts. Using Achaea as an example, the period of time up to when credits were around 4k was reasonable. With few exceptions, people when asked by newbies, will say being competitive using in game methods is more than doable. That becomes harder and harder to say from that point onwards.
-A one use artifact that allows you to change the short and long name of your ship. -An artifact that toggles between increased chances of weapons/armor drops. -Something that allows you to haggle at junk shops, increasing the value of your haul. -A slushie of the month club pass, getting slushies mailed to me straight from the Subnet.
Would like to see an artifact where you can sense everyone in an area (if you are also in that area).
This already exists as class skills.
Every class? I don't know enough about the rest to speak for them, I know Nanoseer has it. But there are several artifacts in Achaea that replicate class skills.
Yeah but an artefact that scans all life presences in the area makes sense for a sci-fi game. That technology exists. Giving knights a way to cop outta battle doesn't.
Would like to see an artifact where you can sense everyone in an area (if you are also in that area).
This already exists as class skills.
Every class? I don't know enough about the rest to speak for them, I know Nanoseer has it. But there are several artifacts in Achaea that replicate class skills.
BEAST has it, it's implied that Fury may be getting one, though that might be entirely wrong.
Engineers are asking to have the area wide scan as an expansion of one of their skills.
@Uachet I'm going to venture a guess here that the devs get paid off more than just "how much money did Starmourn bring in" since it's been in development for 3 years (aka making no money) prior to launch, and they aren't begging on the streets afaik.
You would be correct. This is peoples' full-time jobs!
@Uachet I'm going to venture a guess here that the devs get paid off more than just "how much money did Starmourn bring in" since it's been in development for 3 years (aka making no money) prior to launch, and they aren't begging on the streets afaik.
You would be correct. This is peoples' full-time jobs!
I feel like there is a grammatical error here but I'm no wordsmith.
For weapon artifacts, I'd like to see them sell a "mod-chip" that gives your weapon non-decay and boosts it's stat by a small margin (5,10.15%?). That way you finding gear is still relevant, other people selling gear is still relevant, and you can re-use the mod chip in other weapons (of the same type?), so item modding remains relevant.
-- Message #21 from Tecton -- 21000 IEDs? This is my sad lha-ti face. .
Comments
If the pay model is touted to be different, then yes some will leave who had hoped it would be less costly to play than other IRE games. Then again, some will leave anyway for various other reasons. Whether something is financially viable for you to spend is not actually what is important to a business. You get to play essentially on the dime of others, but that business still needs to make income in order to pay salaries and other operating costs. With nothing to sale, the game then has no real means of generating income unless they go to some fee based system. I may be incorrect, but I do believe IRE is hoping to make a profit off of Starmourn.
Also, it seems your connection between disposable income and age is inverted. It is not the younger players who have the funds to spare, it is the older players who have already established careers who can afford to make the purchases. It is the 16 - 22 year olds who probably have more time than money compared to those who are older. I know in my instance, $400 dollars is not that onerous for me, though it can be for those far less established than I. Though time is more of a problem for me, I don't begrudge those with more time the benefits they gain by being able to play in longer sessions.
So, to wrap up. Those with more money than time keep the game afloat, while those with more time than money help keep it populated? Both are important, but if there is nothing to spend credits on, money, then there is no way the game can pay for continued development and operating costs.
Do not get me wrong, I am not all 'Hurrah! Let's add pay-to-win!' But I do realize they need artifacts/customization/credits sinks to keep the lights on long term.
I don’t get this hatred of artifacts outside of lootbox sales and some of the weapon/stat increasers in other games that essentially make combat have an expensive baseline. IRE is a business first and foremost: They’re trying to make money by providing a product that has a demand. Artifacts have a demand overall even if specific people have no demand for it because a lot of people like playing these games in their leisure time and it’s a worthwhile investment for entertainment.
So yeah, if you want to play Starmourn and have it be the same sort of fun game we’ve found it to be, you need those people buying artifacts to keep the ability to have a paid staff spending hours over a weekend tweaking and fixing the game so that you can continue to enjoy it.
All that that being said, I do think artifacts here will be more along the lines of QoL type stuff and not the gaudy stat or damage increases in other games.
These are things I don’t necessarily want but expect to see once Artefacts go live anyways.
Scalable weapons and armor. These items increase in level with you and the power level rises accordingly. Maxes out at max level with max power for the weapon/armor piece.
Stats reset artefact, akin to trait reset. 1 time use and as often as you like versions.
Reincarnations will probably be a thing with matching arties.
Artie ships. Haven’t really gotten around to ship stuff in game yet, but anything a non-artie ship can do these will do better.
Something to do with mitigating clone costs, as mentioned previously in the thread.
Now for something I would like to see.
Programmable holograms. Various uses like say someone is chasing me, but I drop my hologram and keep booking. They run in the room I dropped the hologram module and my hologram engages them like a real player. Maybe it glitches or something as a giveaway.
Could also be useful as a marketing tool or a guide post of sorts.
-An artifact that toggles between increased chances of weapons/armor drops.
-Something that allows you to haggle at junk shops, increasing the value of your haul.
-A slushie of the month club pass, getting slushies mailed to me straight from the Subnet.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
Engineers are asking to have the area wide scan as an expansion of one of their skills.
21000 IEDs? This is my sad lha-ti face.