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Afflictions and their sway

I'll start out by saying I decided to place this here in the combat section as it really mostly only affects PVP combat, with some small effect on PVE combat.

Let me start with my opinion: I believe there is a harsh discrepancy between afflictions in different subsystems, namely: the MUSUCLAR subsystem has afflictions that are quite better than every other subsystem's afflictions. I also want it to be known that, given that opinion, I don't want MUSCULAR afflictions nerfed. I'd just like other subsys aff trees to be on par.

Lets first break down each subsystem's afflictions:

As MUSCULAR is the subsystem I'll be comparing the others to, we will start with MUSCULAR.

Name                      Subsys                Description
Atrophy                       Muscular     +25% balance costs
Broken Ribs                 Muscular     +10% internal damage
Crippled Movement     Muscular     slowed down movement
Damaged Left Arm      Muscular     +5% balance, -5% damage
Damaged Left Leg       Muscular     +5% balance, -5% damage
Damaged Right Arm    Muscular     +5% balance, -5% damage
Damaged Right Leg     Muscular     +5% balance, -5% damage
Haemophilia                Muscular     inability to cure bleeding
Mangled Head             Muscular     block some abilities
Mangled Left Arm        Muscular     block some abilities
Mangled Left Leg         Muscular     block some abilities
Mangled Right Arm      Muscular     block some abilities
Mangled Right Leg       Muscular     block some abilities
Mangled Torso             Muscular     block some abilities
Myopathy                     Muscular     randomly unwield items
Scorched                      Muscular     damage over time
Spasms                        Muscular     muscular damage over time
Structure Collapse (L1) Muscular     muscular damage L1
Structure Collapse (L2) Muscular     muscular damage L2
Structure Collapse (L3) Muscular     muscular damage L3
Structure Failure           Muscular     muscular damage L4
Tender                         Muscular     +10%/stack muscular damage
Weak Knees                  Muscular     damage to legs prones
Weakened Arms            Muscular     -10% melee damage
Weakened Legs             Muscular     -10% melee damage

Here we can see quite a bit of interaction between afflictions I can point out some things very quickly:
1.) Even without Mangled limbs, as they are currently disabled from being way too strong in the beginning, many muscular afflictions lower damage output while increasing time to regain balance, or increase the amount of damage that you take.
2.) All of these afflictions seem to pair very well with each other.
3.) The subsystem effect at 75% (Crippled movement) is quite honestly the most make-or-break affliction in the game, easily turning fights and making it impossible to run against a competent opponent, or impossible to chase them if they try to create space.
4.) The subsystem effect (Myopathy) Is even more make or break against most classes, and also tends to not have an effect if the enemy that you are fighting doesnt WIELD weapons, but actually wears them, making it useless against Nanoseer.
5.) The sheer amount of balance hinder inside of just four broken limbs is enough to stop affliction stacking, and damage strats by itself against any single-aff class.
6.) In the current damage meta, if you do not focus on giving muscular afflictions, damage is a real issue. It forces your priorities to be HEALTH, AFFLICTION, SUBSYSTEM or else you will die. None of the damaged limbs actually have a duration, so they are affs that just stick forever while your wetwiring heals your HEALTH.

Lets move on to our first subsystem that we are comparing and by far in my opinion the worst subsystem in game: SENSORY

Blind                     Sensory      can't LOOK, can't see people entering/leaving
Blurry Vision         Sensory      -10% inflicted damage
Comm Blackouts   Sensory      chance to miss comm
Dazed                   Sensory      +10% sensory damage
Deaf                      Sensory      can't hear says
Delirium (L1)         Sensory      sensory damage L1
Delirium (L2)         Sensory      sensory damage L2
Delirium (L3)         Sensory      sensory damage L3
Demented Vision   Sensory      wrong vision
Dizzy                     Sensory      +10%/stack sensory damage
Double Vision        Sensory      can mistarget
Echoing                 Sensory      Sensory damage causes echoes
Nearsighted           Sensory      can't target enemies outside current room
Painspike               Sensory      sensory damage over time
Sensory Shutdown Sensory      sensory damage L4

1.)Right off the bat we can easily see that sensory has way less available afflictions in general (5[6 if you include Dazed] compared to Musculars 10 [11 if you count tender])
2.)Disregarding the sheer lack of afflictions, only one of the sensory afflictions actually affects combat, and its -10% damage which could be comparable to a damaged limb except it has a duration.
3.)Echoing is pretty decent, but with a hard requirement of them having the other 3 applicable afflictions its near impossible to land, especially when you can't stack afflictions while having damaged limbs.
4.)Lack of afflictions means lack of things to talk about. Sensory is a joke.

Ill push WETWIRING out of the way really quick as im hitting character limit for first post.

Glitching              Wetwiring    10% wetwiring failure
Hard Lock            Wetwiring    wetwiring damage L4
Malfunction (L1)   Wetwiring    wetwiring damage L1
Malfunction (L2)   Wetwiring    wetwiring damage L2
Malfunction (L3)   Wetwiring    wetwiring damage L3
Meltdown             Wetwiring    -15% mending amount
Overload              Wetwiring    +25% wetwiring time
Shortcircuit          Wetwiring    wetwiring damage over time
Vulnerable           Wetwiring    +10%/stack wetwiring damage

1.) None of these afflictions are applicable except for shortcircuit and vulnerable (as intended, by scoundrels) and that is a good thing. The subsys damage level afflictions are actually pretty good, but often redundant.
2.) The ones that tend to matter only really matter to the singular class that takes advantage of Wetwiring subsys, which is Nanoseer, and the enemy is dead from BREAKDOWN at 50% so they aren't able to be seen.
3.)I can state that so far from my tests WIREBLOCK seems to be very decent albeit with harsh requirements to get to I am not sure if it would just be faster to bash mind and mindmelt.

Continued in next post...

Soza

Re: Afflictions and their sway

We've got two affliction trees left to hit.

Lets start with INTERNAL here and save my favorite for last:

Bleeding              Internal     damage over time
Choking              Internal     internal damage over time
Coughing Blood Internal     randomly take longer to regain balance
Frozen                Internal     vulnerable to fire
Haemotoxin        Internal     healing effectiveness reduced by 50%
Hypertension      Internal     more bleeding
Internal Bleeding Internal     + health damage
Rejection             Internal     10% chance to fail healing
Sepsis (L1)           Internal     internal damage L1
Sepsis (L2)           Internal     internal damage L2
Sepsis (L3)           Internal     internal damage L3
Sepsis Overload   Internal     internal damage L4
Sickness              Internal     maximum health -10%
Slowness             Internal     15% slower balance
Staggering          Internal     attacks to arms send you spinning
Trauma               Internal     +10%/stack internal damage
Winded               Internal     damage when moving

I don't actually have much experience with internal things, other than FREEZE which for some reason does internal, while nano limbdrain does muscular. I'm sure they should both be hitting the same subsystem to at least progress a insta. Anyhow:

1.)Internal has 10 afflictions, one of which is unapplyable except by bosses(Haemotoxin), one only applyable by nano(Freeze). That aside this, tree is actually the one that I think competes the best with MUSCULAR.
2.) Slowness 15% balance very good, expecially when paired with muscular afflictions which also slow balance.
3.) Staggering is also very good, especially when combined with slowness, knocking balance by .57s per hit, which can help you get ahead.
4.) Bleeding is generally good, pressing damage.
5.) Sickness is pretty good, but it actually competes with bleeding, reducing its effectiveness.
6.) All of these do a very average amount of damage, too, which means that someone focusing internal will outright lose to someone focusing muscular, due to not being able to compete with their hindering.

And finally last but not least, MIND

Acrophobia           Mind         unable to fly or climb
Brain Swelling       Mind         halved resource gain
Catatonia (L1)       Mind         mind damage L1
Catatonia (L2)       Mind         mind damage L2
Catatonia (L3)       Mind         mind damage L3
Confusion             Mind         chance to hit a different target than intended
Disorientation       Mind         chance to move in a different direction than intended
Distraction            Mind         periodic balance loss
Encroachment       Mind         unable to take cover
Forgetfulness        Mind         - actions
Hallucinations       Mind         Seeing periodic hallucinations
Seizures                Mind         mind damage over time
Sluggish                Mind         25% slower balance
Stupefied               Mind         +10%/stack mind damage
Stupidity                Mind         - actions
Vegetative              Mind         mind damage L4
Vertigo                   Mind         chance to re-prone when standing up

My opinion on mind afflictions is very simple, they are mostly a bunch of "do something slightly noticeable without actually doing anything" afflictions, unless said affliction is heavily gated.

1.) Acrophobia: Climbing doesn't exist and wouldn't affect the classes that use it. Stopping flying has the most effect in group combat. Otherwise, it's kind of useless.
2.) Confusion: Just don't fight on top of mobs and it literally doesn't do anything.
3.) Disorientation: Generally you don't really care which direction you run away so long as you run away. Still, it does hinder someone's ability to get far after the first move, and has some point.
4.) Distraction: Our first good, but gated, affliction. Gives periodic balance loss comparable to staggering hits, but requires 3 mental afflictions already present to even apply, which as stated is harsh to get to when someone is slowing your balance time. Can also be mindswapped away and to.
5.) Encroachment: Probably the most effect out of all mind afflictions, but is a dead affliction against any melee class as they dont care if they can't take cover most of the time.
6.) Hallucinations: Actually a very good affliction that furies get. Fury also is able to give muscular afflictions, while putting out a high amount of damage, which means that this affliction is extremely effective for them.
7.) Sluggish: Another good, but gated, affliction. Hard requirement of Distraction. It gives 25% slower balance which is very good, but a duration of only 10 seconds, and can be mindswapped away, which means it doesn't even last that long. (3 seconds is three balances).
8.)Vertigo: Great if nano had any way to prone people. It's very strong on Scoundrel, who has a prone-on-demand ability.

As always, feedback appreciated.

Soza

Re: Scoundrel IEDs need changes

Okay, I just wanna drop my thoughts on this for posterity/record reasons:

Junk requirement/Bandolier requirement: Both of these are a massive limit on how IEDs function, and after the aforementioned Discord discussion, I realized both of these for what they are, and they're just two slapped on restrictions to deal with people who wanted half a billion bombs at any given moment.

Suggestion:

Remove junk requirement but instead of going back to the old 'I can make a random amount of bombs out of nothing' scheme, your IEDs yields scale with improvisation skill level. At low levels, you don't really need bombs, but they're nice to have so you can churn out say a flat 20 of each with a "default" balance cost, for example. At max improvisation, you churn out a full 100 at a time at a negligible balance cost. Maybe more, maybe less.

This may also indirectly solve or soften the blow of multiclassing into Scoundrel if the only real limitation is just sinking a couple seconds of time, or just stop deleting bombs between class swaps if at all possible.

Bandolier storage:
This is just my own take on how storage works - this is not just for bandoliers - and this is just one method, so take it for what it is worth. I don't think objects are physically stored on your person, but virtually stored on you in some way. Yes, you can still use conventional backpacks, bags, and pouches as you would in reality but I was having my own issues with trying to come up with a way I could shove just about anything into any container item and it not change shape.

It's all digital/virtual - whichever you like to use, I am not entirely sure there's a difference here - so the bandolier is less of a belt strap with a bunch of loops on it and more like a flexible data storage device with predefined limits on how much you can store on it. Your sim just keeps track of what you have, and how much.

Additional thoughts:
As powerful/useful as mindsims are, I think it'd greatly reduce the load on them (and maybe the game in the long run?) if we just had an omnibomb instead of like 10 different bombs with 3 different potential modifications. Though this massively goes against the flavor of improvisation.

Do I like the idea of blowing up an entire bandolier of IEDs? Yes.
Do I see other ways that would look/play out? Also yes.

Ikchor

Scoundrel IEDs need changes

Hello, everybody! During the most recent Monthly Discussion, we discussed classes. One topic covered was scoundrel IEDs, and that conversation -- and a few following it -- have generated this forum post.

TL;DR

Problems:

IEDs require lessons to make but not use, contrary to stated developer intent
Constructing IEDs requires junk, meaning marks
Constructing IEDs takes quite a bit of time
Bandoliers have problems for multiclass and occupy clothing slots

Desired Developer Response:

Rework the IED abilities as restrictions on whether the scoundrel can use an IED, not on whether a scoundrel can construct an IED.
Remove the junk element entirely.
Remove the time element for constructing IEDs.
Remove bandolier requirement.

Diving In...

The Situation

Scoundrel IEDs require a few things to make before use:

1) The requisite lesson investment for each IED and mods, if any, added thereto.

a) The IED abilities within the Improvisation skill bestow upon the scoundrel the capability of constructing the IEDs

b) These abilities do not affect whether the scoundrel can use the IEDs herself. There are other abilities within Improvisation required for using the skills, such as the following:

i) Fling

ii) Trigger

iii) Multibomb

iv) Hide

v) Tripwire

c) Some abilities interact with them once placed in the room with Hide, such as:

i) Detonate

ii) Facesmash

iii) Taking cover behind the IED placed on a prop

d) Because of b) above, a scoundrel can currently get an IED she cannot make herself from someone who can make it. This is not intended, we learned during the Monthly Discussion.

2) Junk, of the variety dropped from mobs of a suitable level while bashing. Junk has different values in marks, and each piece of junk's marks value determines how many IEDs are constructed. This results in a range of IEDs constructed, typically something like 2-25 IEDs

a) IEDs cost marks to make.

b) To reiterate, a scoundrel has to bash mobs that grant experience to that player to get junk.

c) The daily junk cap, if hit, functions quite like an absolute bar to using IEDs for more bashing. This occurs far more often than before for two reasons:

i) The daily credits cap of 20, if bashed for, means bashing a lot more mobs than needed just for junk cap.

ii) The Talents grind incentivizes even longer bashing sessions per day than what is needed to reach the dailycredits cap.

d) This forces scoundrels to bash in order to get resources for PVP.

3) Time. Each IED CONSTRUCT command consumes 4.5s of balance.

a) Assuming, for the sake of argument, each IED CONSTRUCT command generates on average 10 IEDs, refilling a bandolier takes 225 seconds. This is about 3.75 minutes. (A bandolier can hold 500 of any kind of IED + mod.)

b) IED CONSTRUCT requires being out of combat. And we all know it takes a while to get out of combat, so add that to the 225s in a).

c) The time it takes to get enough junk to make everything depends on a number of factors, including level, bashing proficiency, equipment, and so on.

d) No other class needs to spend minutes stocking up on supplies essential to an entire class skill.

i) An engineer can craft a bunch of turrets, but those last for days, if undisturbed, and they're not necessary for taking advantage of the Turrets skill.

ii) Similarly, an engineer can stock up on things like hoverboards to disassemble at a later time, but they've got abilities like Airdrop to refill in order to rekit.

iii) More important than fixating upon similarities or differences between the scoundrel and engineer preparation cycle is this: that just because something's not really player friendly in one area of the game (engineers being incentivized to stock up on things like turrets and hoverboards) does not mean that scoundrels should have to deal with the same problem; a problem is a problem.

e) For something like a xenohunt, taking multiple five minute timeouts just to get back to being fully operational is a recipe for failure.

4) Bandoliers, while not required for making IEDs, are required for storing them. They hold up to 500 of each type of IED, for every type of mod. (That's a lot of IEDs.

a) These IEDs are not saved on class swap using multiclass. This is a big deterrent to using the multiclass system.

b) The bandolier is yet another thing we have to wear. This means scoundrels all have to wear one more item of clothing, which, in conjunction with the knuckles and jetpack, have to wear more clothing and therefore have fewer clothing slots for character customization.

c) That the bandolier can hold so many IEDS begs one important thematic question and one less important one.

i) HOW?

ii) And why can't we just stick a fuse in the bandolier and toss it, instead?

d) By the way, if you carry too many bombs in inventory, you suffer a "fumble" balance penalty to your IED skills. This was a bandaid fix for people making thousands of IEDs ahead of time; that was too many items in inventories for the game to handle smoothly.

Proposed Solution

Rework the IED abilities as restrictions on whether the scoundrel can use an IED, not on whether a scoundrel can construct an IED. This comports with stated developer intent.
Remove the junk element entirely. This brings scoundrel in line with other classes.
Remove the time element for constructing IEDs. Let the skills function like everybody else's skills: IED FLING RIPPER SHRAPNEL, plus the lesson investment, is all a scoundrel needs.
Remove bandolier requirement. These changes render it superfluous and resolve the multiclass problem.

Alternative Solutions I'd Accept

Turn suckerpunch into an even better haymaker so I never need to fling again
Make quickload a speed buff The Flash would be proud of
Reimplement magtoss

Alternative Solutions I'd Accept, Begrudgingly (AKA Bandaids)

A 30s balance ability that completely fills up the bandolier
IED abilities don't actually use the IED items, or the IEDs get +1 to their quantity after use

A Brief Discussion on Scoundrel Themes of Improvisation and Preparedness

One of the most interesting discussions that the Monthly Discussion generated was that of what's compelling about the scoundrel's identity. One scoundrel, in Discord, commenting on IEDs and this topic generally, said, "On one hand, Scoundrel's rugged preparedness is a part of the flavor. On the other hand, this is the future. Scarcity is an illusion. We print food." I replied, "I think scoundrel's theme of rugged preparedness comes not from making IEDs but from taking the time to do something with them. Also, I think the scoundrel's theme of improvising as things develop is even more important."

It is my opinion that scoundrel's theme becomes more focused on improvisation if IED junk reliance and creation time are removed. We retain the thematic aspect of preparation by taking time to set tripwires and hide bombs and going into vigilant stance or whatever. Placing bugs, too, requires foresight and planning. Improvised cover, to a lesser extent, can be used for preparation.

These proactive preparations available to scoundrels leave a far greater impression on the player than having to make bombs beforehand. Every scoundrel would want to have 500 of every type of bomb on hand, but for the time, marks, and general hassle involved. It's not a decision, but rather a boring necessity. Scoundrels don't have to make PIECE ammo. Why? Because it would be tedious and it adds nothing to the game.

Conclusion

Thanks for reading. Please change IEDs and remove bandoliers. Thanks. Also, thanks to the scoundrels who've been involved in getting these ideas together, with a special thanks to Nykara, Morgan, and Zarrach for discussing these things over the past half year or so.

Steve

Re: The Talent System and Xenoslayers

Xenoslaying:
It's fairly frustrating to be waiting around, finally see one pop, and have it die before you get off the shuttle. They're very very much at the mercy of people with 20 in crit. It's not a group effort, which I believe was the goal here?
-They need to be crit immune.
-They need 3x hp.
-An interesting suggestion I saw, give them (maybe just Apex?) "interrupt shields" that would require more than one person to actually interrupt a windup.
-Also, should make it so caches appear with an Apex. Give a good reason to get people in there fighting instead of in there farming.

Edit: Another interesting idea. Give them crit immune until they take X amount of subsystem damage. Which would stop crit people from destroying them instantly, giving everyone else time to show up. And would give a reason to bring a group. One section keeps the subsystem low, the other hurts it.

Rylek

Re: The Talent System and Xenoslayers

This is good stuff! I'll see what we can work in here

Ilyos

Re: The Talent System and Xenoslayers

Good changes, and I have a few more suggestions.

I think there would be value in making xenohunting more competitive, while still preserving the opportunity for everyone to participate. Per the most recent changes, you have to wait for random spawns, and then rush to the area with your crew before others get to it. This unfortunately falls into how a lot of mechanics exist - waiting around for things to happen, and then you're limited by friend/faction availability.

So I would suggest expanding the opportunities for participation. An easy solution would be to use the existing wilderness triangulation mechanic to potentially spawn bosses upon completion (maybe like a 20% rate). (This could also return a message with the vnum where the boss spawned in the wilderness, to appease the "no map" complaints.) This means that everyone would have opportunity to actively xenohunt on their own time with available crews, and without competition from outside forces since they're in personal wilderness areas. This also gives more value to wildernesses, which are still pretty weak, having the smol asteroid/gas rewards. For fairness, possibly have these active xenohunts award less points than completing the random wild hunt.

Further in the spirit of competition/sustained interest, I think it would be cool if xenoslaying rankings were more seasonal than perpetual. That is, perhaps introduce a yearly competition for xenoslaying, where there are tiered rewards and/or rewards for the top X, and then this gets reset. The reward could be something as simple as chips, loot tokens, honors/titles, etc. You could also have an all-time rankings, as it is now, or just track this through HONORS STATS as a personal achievement type thing. But I much prefer the concept of dynamic rankings, as it gives new players a better sense of relevance/renown, and it makes it more of an opt-in activity than a perpetual grind. (There are already many obnoxiously grindy activities.)

Finally, I think it would be cool to have greathunts on a smaller scale. In Lusternia, sometimes there would be weekly XP challenges which were themed. To translate the concept to Starmourn, we'd cycle through competitions for: Normal XP, Quest-earned XP, Hacking XP, and Captaincy XP. These probably shouldn't run all the time, but it'd be nice to have bursts of double XP and competitions to opt into. Even if you did something like a Captaincy Taco Tuesday or whatever, it'd give people something to look forward to.

Azlyn

Re: The Talent System and Xenoslayers

Or

New syntax - SOCKET CHIP FOR <stat/experience type>. Only works with personal chips.

Ikchor

Re: The Talent System and Xenoslayers

Final idea about chips for a while: what if the personal augmentation chips buffed all stats? That would eliminate the problem of the chips doing nothing for some people and would make them actually exciting and would create a demand for them.

Steve

Re: The Talent System and Xenoslayers

I forgot to say here that the talent for getting chips is really neat except that the chips that drop just aren't that exciting. Getting a random chip that can be captaincy, or psyche, or whatever with no indication of what it does before slotting it just doesn't sit right with me. I'm putting points into chips to learn more about how they work, but that's my first impression.

Update: first talents chip sold on the promo market for 10k marks, just for grins. The buyer was a scoundrel. He slotted it and got a strength buff. That's not even close to helpful; if nothing else, I'd like for these chips to be a whole lot smarter and pick from what the person can actually use. And please remove hacking and captaincy experience from the pool, if it's going to be random, too; why would the pve talent system feed into hacking and captaincy when there's very little need for those chips to begin with (and a huge supply to boot)?

Steve