Best Of
Re: Mining spec
I agree with this sentiment, but I disagree that the onus is on people in power. Even if you have a system in place, there needs to be real reasons for players to rally in this and sustain it. The people in power are still players, volunteering their time in what shouldn't feel like a job, and so are the miners who suffer the real time sink. We all should not be compelled to do something that isn't fun and isn't worthwhile in a game setting. I actually originally stuck my toes in the mining waters because I wanted to get weapon mod shipments. Then I didn't need them anymore, or the burden of the chore far outweighed the prospect of a reward, so I stopped. Now, after getting suckered in again, I'm here sitting on an excess of ship supplies, which are being bought and used much slower than I can make them, and there's pretty much no competition on the market. (Where's all this CA product at??) So, anyway, I've mostly stopped mining again.Cubey said:An economy can't be driven by NPC orders. It's up to the players to make it work.
But yeah, I almost suggested getting rid of PMOs entirely, because I don't really get their purpose in the grand scheme. But maybe they're okay to have until the economy is actually chugging along.
Azlyn
2
Re: Mining spec
1. Mining possesses initial barriers.
That is an absolutely valid claim. You have forsaken that barrier by way of contributing to an isolated economic cycle, but the barrier is still there. If I came to play the game for the economy, I'd bounce in 3 days, having spent 300% of the marks I had earned (since I'm spending marks I'm being given for nothing) without having made a single mark of profit. I'd be burned out, frustrated, and bored. Or: I'd feel the exact same way I have every time I've tried to get into Starmourn's economy so far. Yeah, there are workarounds, but the problem still exists that a newbie can't come and play the game for one of its main draws without significant social interaction (compared to the other two).
Disclaimer: Duh, roleplaying is important and duh roleplaying involves social interaction, but there is more to RP than just fluffy unicorn happy trade deals. Imagine wanting to play a space trucker with a shitty attitude and finding out it's fundamentally impossible without also being a genocidal maniac... now you're just a trope.
ETA: Or "it isn't fun", which is the main problem (outside of the very specific situation "capitalist debt" you have crafted)
That is an absolutely valid claim. You have forsaken that barrier by way of contributing to an isolated economic cycle, but the barrier is still there. If I came to play the game for the economy, I'd bounce in 3 days, having spent 300% of the marks I had earned (since I'm spending marks I'm being given for nothing) without having made a single mark of profit. I'd be burned out, frustrated, and bored. Or: I'd feel the exact same way I have every time I've tried to get into Starmourn's economy so far. Yeah, there are workarounds, but the problem still exists that a newbie can't come and play the game for one of its main draws without significant social interaction (compared to the other two).
Disclaimer: Duh, roleplaying is important and duh roleplaying involves social interaction, but there is more to RP than just fluffy unicorn happy trade deals. Imagine wanting to play a space trucker with a shitty attitude and finding out it's fundamentally impossible without also being a genocidal maniac... now you're just a trope.
ETA: Or "it isn't fun", which is the main problem (outside of the very specific situation "capitalist debt" you have crafted)
Nykara
3
Re: Mining spec
To write off casual players like myself is a disturbing direction to take. Any game, Starmourn included, should be as inclusive as possible when it comes to playstyles.
Matlkael
4
Re: Quality of Life Wishlist
And I'll say this one again (it's been said elsewhere): more options for searching for cargo. CARGO CONTENTS ASTRIUM, for example, should show me where all my astrium is. CARGO CONTENTS OMNI should show me what I've got at Omni.[IMPLEMENTED]
Steve
9
Re: Manufacturing Recipe Spreadsheets
Nice work, for sure! This iteration probably gets everything one would practically use.
Just one point of order:
- Production bonuses are a little deceiving. A 33% production bonus ACTUALLY means a 1/3 (i.e. 33.33 repeating) production bonus. So running 3 batches of kinetic_battery will net you 40 kinetic_battery, not 39. I haven't tested but I assume 14% production bonus is actually 1/7 and 12% is actually 1/8.
And another thing, just to keep you awake at night (this is where the problem gets real complicated): What happens to the 'Total Raw Materials' column if you're using production bonuses for the intermediate commodities?
Re: Quality of Life Wishlist
- Allow the usage of SHIP DESIGN WARES at any chop shop while on foot, so that you don't have to take a ship around to every single one just to see what's on offer.
- Include the owner of a cosmpiercer in the conflict messages relating to cosmpiercers. E.g. '(Conflict): Cosmpiercer RA-4055 (Celestine) is now immune to all attacks.'[IMPLEMENTED]
- Sort STATIONS alphabetically by station name, and optionally provide a way to sort by zone and distance.
- Please color Scatterhome ships differently on the space map. I realize there's some thematic precedent for them being asteroid-colored or whatever, but that particular shade is very difficult to see, and relying solely on SHIP BEACON isn't really convenient considering that it takes balance.[IMPLEMENTED]
Rhindara
3
Re: Quality of Life Wishlist
@Reeloc I agree generally, but as someone who pretty much only uses auto, I've never run into a planet I could not get to. Though it does take a bit of trial and error for some.
Still, it would be a real qol improvement if we had a command to search by planet name or something, and it provided coords for all matches, as well as the name to properly reference it in autopilot commands.
Still, it would be a real qol improvement if we had a command to search by planet name or something, and it provided coords for all matches, as well as the name to properly reference it in autopilot commands.
eel
1
Re: Mining spec
My point really was not about the overall economy, or whether mining can be profitable at all.
It's that we put most of the burden on the first people in the chain. I don't want to do economy stuff at all. And I certainly don't need to to make marks. I can clear thousands an hour bashing with absolutely minimal attention and effort. BUT the game is in beta and we want shit to work. We want it to work and BE FUN, so that we not only attract new players to our obscure genre, but KEEP THEM. So I'm trying things. And watching other people try things, and listening when they tell me- "Hey this sucks". A lot of those people who told me "This sucks", ARE NO LONGER PLAYING. This includes people from all the factions and some who were factionless.
Original point:
Mining takes a lot of time and a fair amount of concentration. The latest spawn changes have definitely made it better, but I'm not trading in my beacon artifact anytime soon. We've concentrated all the barriers to the economy- right at the start of the cycle. So yes, mining equip is a minor expense, but it's still there. The other two specs have nothing. You are going to invest a lot of time flying around. The other two specs have nothing. Once you have finished mining and at the point where you would expect to get paid- you instead incur significant costs and additional time wasted not getting paid. So not only did I invest a lot of my time going out to get the stuff, now I have to wait around again. And pay for the privilege. Other two specs? Additional time invested? Nope. Costs incurred instead of getting paid? Nope.
When a miner delivers materials to the refinery, they should get paid. And then the refinery owner should need to do something, besides own a refinery. Right now the entire cost and time investment of the first two parts of the economy have been basically pushed off on miners. Also, it's probably not that fun owning refineries where there is nothing to do but wait around for people to use them.
I also think that improvements to all parts of the economic system, that you can buy with marks instead of credits would be great. Keep the marks moving, and give people reasons to aspire to bigger and better. Mining ship, better mining gear, refinery overhaul, factory improvements that let you eek a few more % out of whatever.
Current breakdown, as much for organizing my thoughts as anything:
Mining:
Time investment- enormous and ongoing.
Costs: upfront- tethers, scoops, probes and ship insurance. ongoing- refinery fees, more tethers, scoops, probes. Probably also astromechs, repairkits and batteries. Ship insurance if you fail to pay attention, or have bad luck in the interceptor.
Artifacts: beacon, hyperscanner
Upgrades: new ships, ship components, ship refit
Refining:
Time investment- none
Costs- upfront- buy refinery. ongoing- taxes
Artifacts: ? there's a production speed arti, but why would you care how long someone else has to wait?
Ugrades: none
Factories:
Time investment- minimal
Costs- upfront- buy factory. ongoing- taxes
Artifacts: production speed
Upgrades: none
It's that we put most of the burden on the first people in the chain. I don't want to do economy stuff at all. And I certainly don't need to to make marks. I can clear thousands an hour bashing with absolutely minimal attention and effort. BUT the game is in beta and we want shit to work. We want it to work and BE FUN, so that we not only attract new players to our obscure genre, but KEEP THEM. So I'm trying things. And watching other people try things, and listening when they tell me- "Hey this sucks". A lot of those people who told me "This sucks", ARE NO LONGER PLAYING. This includes people from all the factions and some who were factionless.
Original point:
Mining takes a lot of time and a fair amount of concentration. The latest spawn changes have definitely made it better, but I'm not trading in my beacon artifact anytime soon. We've concentrated all the barriers to the economy- right at the start of the cycle. So yes, mining equip is a minor expense, but it's still there. The other two specs have nothing. You are going to invest a lot of time flying around. The other two specs have nothing. Once you have finished mining and at the point where you would expect to get paid- you instead incur significant costs and additional time wasted not getting paid. So not only did I invest a lot of my time going out to get the stuff, now I have to wait around again. And pay for the privilege. Other two specs? Additional time invested? Nope. Costs incurred instead of getting paid? Nope.
When a miner delivers materials to the refinery, they should get paid. And then the refinery owner should need to do something, besides own a refinery. Right now the entire cost and time investment of the first two parts of the economy have been basically pushed off on miners. Also, it's probably not that fun owning refineries where there is nothing to do but wait around for people to use them.
I also think that improvements to all parts of the economic system, that you can buy with marks instead of credits would be great. Keep the marks moving, and give people reasons to aspire to bigger and better. Mining ship, better mining gear, refinery overhaul, factory improvements that let you eek a few more % out of whatever.
Current breakdown, as much for organizing my thoughts as anything:
Mining:
Time investment- enormous and ongoing.
Costs: upfront- tethers, scoops, probes and ship insurance. ongoing- refinery fees, more tethers, scoops, probes. Probably also astromechs, repairkits and batteries. Ship insurance if you fail to pay attention, or have bad luck in the interceptor.
Artifacts: beacon, hyperscanner
Upgrades: new ships, ship components, ship refit
Refining:
Time investment- none
Costs- upfront- buy refinery. ongoing- taxes
Artifacts: ? there's a production speed arti, but why would you care how long someone else has to wait?
Ugrades: none
Factories:
Time investment- minimal
Costs- upfront- buy factory. ongoing- taxes
Artifacts: production speed
Upgrades: none
Poet
1
Re: Yet another MODS thread
Reviving this thread with a small upgrade suggested to mods.
Most mods in the game are close to useless since they add very little unless you are willing to invest significantly into them.
For example:
Augmenter series mods add +2 to +3 damage which is close to nothing. As a result there is no point in researching, mastering and developing these mods.
One of the ideas that came up to make them more appealing as an item to spur demand and make the skill more integral to the game is the following.
In addition to raw damage - perhaps mods can add other modifiers in the game
Perhaps adding these small incremental modifiers will make them more appealing in the context of the game.
Most mods in the game are close to useless since they add very little unless you are willing to invest significantly into them.
For example:
Augmenter series mods add +2 to +3 damage which is close to nothing. As a result there is no point in researching, mastering and developing these mods.
One of the ideas that came up to make them more appealing as an item to spur demand and make the skill more integral to the game is the following.
In addition to raw damage - perhaps mods can add other modifiers in the game
Warzax - raw damage output |
Nascent - raw damage output |
Xyca - raw damage output |
Tazi - small chance to generate 20% extra junk. |
Surger - small chance to trigger victoryrush by +3 seconds |
Booster - small chance to pacify/ freeze a mob |
Driver - small chance to cause a critical hit |
Augmenter - small chance to insta-kill a mob of a lower level |
Perhaps adding these small incremental modifiers will make them more appealing in the context of the game.
Kirin
3